Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom

Calibres - Choice between 6mm ( .244 ), .257 and 6.5mm ( .264 ) etc

I would like info on loads for the 6.5 swedish mauser. we want to use 140 grain bullets. any loading data will be appreciated.
butch <>
lancaster, s.c. USA - Sunday, November 01, 1998 at 19:09:36 (EST) 
Butch, the latest American Rifleman has a article by Edwin Matunas on the 6.5 x 55 Swedish. He gives some example loads and a bit of discussion for intellectual consumption.

A friend of mine has his 6.5 rechambered to 6.5-284. Original barrel and action. A humdinger of a long range flat shooter. Except cases are hard to find.

Terry Warner <>
Canada - Sunday, November 01, 1998 at 23:57:51 (EST) 

I would Like to get some opinions as to the pro's and cons of 3 differant bore sizes, namely 6mm (.244) .257 and 6.5 (.264) I ask only because I have a "spare" action and wish to build a "light" rifle with which to practice my long range mirage reading and general skills. I was thinking something flat shooting "interesting" to handload for and generaly less anti social than my .300 Win. E-mail me please if you have recomendations or can give me a bit more info on the remington .260 or the 6.5-284 wildcat
Thank you for a great site

Grey <>
Alaska USA - Monday, November 09, 1998 at 05:08:58 (EST) 


No way to email you so I'll post a response..

Re: 260 rem. I recently had a 260 rem (6.5-08)built from a R700 SA. I am very pleased with it so far. It's extremely accurate, and basically a recoilless pleasure to shoot. TorF, a frequent Roster contributor, started the ball rolling w/ some load suggestions and an assessment of the performance of the cartridge. The gist of his input to me was that it is a much better performer than you might expect. Also, Hook Boutin, who is a very talented and knowledgable rifle builder and shooter had many good things to say about the cartridge.

They were both right on with their views. It is an accurate, pleasant shooting, and excellent performer ballistically. I would suggest an eight twist barrel 26 inches finished to get good results from the 140gr class bullets. There are several powder/bullet combos that have given me great results. I don't have time to elaborate on specifics re: powders, bullets, reloading ilk etc. (on lunch break at work), but I'll be happy to launch into a truly verbose pontificatory (that a word?) tyrade about all of this if your interested. I beleive you would be quite pleased w/ a bolt gun chambered for 260 rem.

As for 6mm, well, I'm about to learn about that myself. I'm going to try on a 6mmBR and see how it does. Spent 6 hrs. sanding and finishing a Richard's Microfit stock yesterday (under the watchful eye of Mr. Boutin). The stock is very nice but it was very unfinished when I got it. As a result, an educational taste of sanding and finishing was in store for me. And class ain't over yet. Actually, I enjoyed it !! Have not fired the rifle yet. We'll see. Will test with molyed Berger 105 VLDs and 31.0 gr. RL-15. Also, will test w/ Varget. I plan to try 95 gr VLDs from Berger and Starke. Also, some 105gr Amax. Barrel is Accumax II on a R700 SA.

Jeff A. <>
browsing the "sale" items at Exocet Missles R Us in Smyrna, Ga USA - Monday, November 09, 1998 at 13:56:49 (EST) 

Hey, glad you're back. Did we email at some point about 6mmBR. You shoot that one? Let know about because I just started loading some 105vlds on 31.0gr RL-15, just touching lans. I got some Norma brass and will commence testing of sorts with a Accumax II, 8 twist barreled M700 SA bedded in a Richard's Microfit laminant stock. Spent 6 hrs last Sun. sanding that stock. Anyway, let me know if you are a 6BR user.... listen to me,..user... I mean shooter. Desparately need a break from this computer stuff. Speaking of which...

Jeff A. <>
having flatulance at work in Atlanta, Ga USA - Friday, November 13, 1998 at 14:17:39 (EST) 

Jeff A,
Yes I have a 6BR and its a shooter. However mine is in a 1-12 twist. I shoot only the 65 to 71gr bullets and it doesn't make any difference what bullet or powder you use it just shoots!! It will consistantly shoot .5 at 200yds and as good as .1 to .3s all the time at 100yds. I have read good things about the 1-8 twists for 1000yd shooting but I couldn't believe they were getting 3000fps out it with a 105VLD. As I recall they were using BLC-2 to get that speed. The 6BR is inherently accurate and not picky with either powder or bullet's. I was easly getting 3400fps with my 68 & 70gr bullets.

Pat <>
USA - Friday, November 13, 1998 at 16:43:46 (EST) 

Anybody have experience with a 6.5-06'?

Rich <>
WA USA - Tuesday, November 24, 1998 at 15:19:41 (EST) 

My gunsmith try's talking me into building one everytime I call him up with a new gun project. He claim's it's one of the best flat shooting long range rifle's going, short of a big magnum. I've read several article's on them as hunting round's and there superb. If you would like more info on them I'am sure he would be glad to fill you in . His name is Darrell Holland and he's one of the best in the business. E.mail me and I'll get his phone number if your interested.

Pat <>
USA - Tuesday, November 24, 1998 at 17:04:50 (EST) 

Also 6.5-06 um! The only thing wrong with the .264 win mag was that it was too much of a good thing. That should be about the right amount. Pat's 260 Remington will be another fine attempt to produce the perfect rifle and we shall see.

B.Rogers <>
USA - Tuesday, November 24, 1998 at 18:41:59 (EST) 

Bill R.
Your right on the 264wm being to big for the 6.5 bullet and it is a barrel burner!! When I was doing my research on the 6.5(Trying to prove TorF wrong) I ran across an article on the develepoment of the 6.5 in this country. The just of the article was that we tried to make to much of a hot rod out of it by putting it into the magnum case's so it would out perform the 270. Then Remington came out with the 6.5 Remington Mag. and intorduced it with a short barrel!!, which of cource killed it, and then Jack O'Conner said it wasn't any better than his 270 and that really killed it. The interesting thing to come out of this was that the ideal case capacity for this round is actually a 257 Roberts Ackley Imp. case. They said that with this case capacity you would achieve the ultimate effeciency for this caliber and anything more would be a waste of powder and barrel life. Plus this round out performed the 270 hands down. Just food for thought.

Pat <>
USA - Wednesday, November 25, 1998 at 11:25:49 (EST) 

My 260Rem sporter arrived in the mail this mornig, so now my Thanksgiving will be spent at the range breaking in the barrel and hopefully some load testing before bedding it. What I plan to do is to compare this sporter to the heavy barrel and see how close they will shoot to one another with one being a hunting rifle and one being a full bore tactical rifle with a heavy after market barrel and action squared and lapped. I will check for accuracy and for the cold bore shots and keep you informed. HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL MY GOOD FRIEND'S HERE ON SNIPER COUNTRY, MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

Pat <>
USA - Wednesday, November 25, 1998 at 13:56:05 (EST) 

Pat, have fun with the new rifle. Everything I have found on the 6.5-06' has it pushing the same bullet 50-100 fps faster than the .264 win with less powder. It seems that every bore diameter has a "sweet spot" when it comes to case capacity and the 06'/.257 Ackley is just about it in 6.5mm. The 6.5X68 Schuler is a really nice looking cartridge, kind of a euro style .264 win but brass is very expensive in the States. Ever get the itch to build something but can't decide exactly what?

Rich <>
WA USA - Wednesday, November 25, 1998 at 17:37:42 (EST) 

Pat: I may be as excited as you are(probably not)about your getting the .260.I think the .308 case will prove to be the ultimate for it. The .257 roberts is just a pussy cat because of the factory ammo and the old rifles that it might chamber in. It would probably be ok for the .260 but the .308 case is more exciting to most of us. The 30-06 case is a real nice idea too.Seem like that is current with the thinking of getting away from the Magnum belt. fun is fun!
Happy Turkey day to you and Your Mrs.

B. Rogers <>
USA - Wednesday, November 25, 1998 at 18:09:53 (EST) 

Ref 257 Roberts: Ihave yet to find a 257 Roberts that can shoot MOA on any consistent basis. I even hate to mention the 257 Roberts in the same breath as a 25.06.

Later gentlemen!

Al Ostapowicz <>
I Can See Clearly Now, the Rain is Gone in Blustery, Ohio USA - Wednesday, November 25, 1998 at 23:08:28 (EST)

If my post sounds like I'm endorsing the .257 Roberts round scratch it from your memory. My experience is the same as Al's. Worst shooting rifle I ever had was a Ruger 77 in .257.

B.Rogers <>
USA - Thursday, November 26, 1998 at 01:03:43 (EST) 

Jeff & Bill R.,
Well I got a chance to spend some time at the range on turkey day.
First the rifle has an excllent bore smooth as an aftermarket barrel and came from the factory with a 3lb trigger (Yes 3lbs). I did my usual cleaning and breakin and then began load testing. I tried 140 & 120 match and 95gr V-Max's. The gun will shoot all of these under 1 inch with 3 shot group's under .5 in some case's. I conentrated on the 95 V-Max because I want to use it on coyote's. It will shoot the 95s into .8 & .9s for 5 shot group's with 4 in the .5 range. The velocity for the 95s stayed at exactly 3200fps for three different powder's I couldn't believe it, I thought the cronograph was stuck!! then the load with W-760 went to 3245 for an average and shot the best too. The 140s shot the best and was triping the light's at 2780fps with RL-22, not bad for a factory 24" barrel. I had all my loads at the MAX recomended load because this will be a hunting rifle. Sighted in at 100yds at 1.5" high (with the 95s) it's dead on at 200yds and 5" low at 300yds. I hope to get out today and do some long range testing. I will stay with the 95s for now because I want to get tuned up for coyote's. The .257Robert's "SUCKS" But the Ackley Improved makes it a 25-06 in a short action and it's very accurate.

Pat <>
USA - Friday, November 27, 1998 at 11:27:32 (EST) 

Bill R. & Jeff A,
Tried the 260 on long range, but I bedded it first( I just couldn't wait) The first 3 shot group at 100yds measured .251 and the next 3 at 200yds. went .595 the next 3 at 300 went into2.005 at 400 the group measured 2.840 needless to say I was happy with my new coyote load in a light weight rifle!!!. The cold bore shot is in exactly the same spot as the next two. I just can't wait to get the heavy barrel ,if this is any indication of the accuracy potential I will have to put TorF in my will(HA).

Pat <>
USA - Sunday, November 29, 1998 at 18:37:41 (EST) 

To All,
I've gotten several request on the 260 Rem. project and rather than send a bunch of different e.mails I will give a quick review for all since I'am basically done and it's time for it to start earning it's place in the gun rack. Out of 136rds. fired for load testing it shot 123rds. into one inch or under. I used 6 different powders and 4 different bullets of which were 3 different brands. The best 5shot group was .630 the worst 5shot group was 1.563 the best 3shot group was .251 and the worst was 1.233 The overall average for the 5shot group's is .822 This caliber seems to be like it's big brother the 308 not picky with about anything you shoot in it. It' a very plesant caliber to shoot and shoot's bullet weight's from 85 to 140 with some heavier specialty bullet's for tha 1-8 twists. I think this will be one hell of a fine tactical round if they ever load factory match ammo for it. It's a very accurate round and has fantasic ballistic's and I cant wait to get the heavy barrel from my smith!! One last note the gun was bedded and all loads were max loads with no thought of down loading because I was looking for a fast and accurate hunting round and no doubt the accuracy would be even better if I played around with the powder chg.
Pat <mrbulle@hotmail>
USA - Friday, December 11, 1998 at 17:52:40 (EST) 
I think I have missed something. I have seen a lot of comment about the "new" .260 rem, but I have seen no details, nor can I find any in any of the current loading manuals that I have or even the local gun shops. From what I can gather it is no more than a "legitimized" 6.5 x.308 If this is correct what can it offer that has not been done in the last hundred years by oh for instance the 6.5x54 ms the 6.5x 55 swede the 6.5 x57 mauser and the 6.5-06 ( and 6.5 -06 improved for that matter) ? is there something magical about this cartridge that I am missing ? At least fill me in on the details such as overall length and shoulder angles I dont mean to sound sceptical because I am merely curious because I can find so little information on this round.
Grey <>
Alaska USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 17:25:44 (EST) 
Grey, 6.5 bullets are good because they have very high sectional density at 140-160 grn. and relatively high ballistic coeficients for the bore size. the .260 rem fits in a short action unlike the other rounds you listed. I still prefer the 6.5-06' but the .260 and the 6.5/.284 are very accurate rounds that fit the .308 length action and mag, I shure would like an AR-10 in 6.5/.284...

Rich <>
WA USA - Thursday, December 17, 1998 at 22:42:53 (EST) 

I have a 260 REM (Thanks to TorF) and they are really a nice round.
all it is is the 308 necked down to the 6.5 or a 243 necked up to the 6.5. I believe it may even be the same shoulder angle. I just resize my 243 brass to the 6.5 and shoot it. It's like the 7mm-08 also. You can't hardly push a 100gr bullet much over 3000fps in a 243 yet I can push a 120 that fast in the 260 and a 95gr to over 3250, go figure. The round is unbelievably accurate, it's no hot rod but like its big brother the 308 it shoot's everything and damn good too!! I personally feel it will make a super tactical round because of the ballistics and it will be a great all around hunting round for anything smaller than elk.The 6.5-06 is allready a great flat shooting long range hunting round but doesn't have the accuracy of the 260. I got my reloading info from Jeff A. he was good enough to fax it to me, I believe he got it from Sierra.

Pat <>
USA - Friday, December 18, 1998 at 10:51:18 (EST) 

Have you tried any of the Vita Viory 500 series in the 6.5 and if so which one is the best and what kind of velocity can I expect out of the 260 with the 140gr bullets?? The way this sporter is shooting I cant wait to get my heavy barrel. I went with a Pac Nor, 3 Lands an Groves, Super match barrel with a 1 in 8 Twist. The sporter is a I in 9 twist and shoots everything under.75 MOA out to 400yds. The worst group it shot at 400yds were the 95gr and it still measured 2.8 inchs. I have to give it to you, you were right on the 6.5s I would have never believed it, and then when Jeff got his and the groups he shot I knew I had to have one!!!! So thanks from a FAN and have a Merry Christmas!!
Pat <>
USA - Monday, December 21, 1998 at 11:51:39 (EST) 

Just read your question to TorF about 500 series powders for 6.5/08. For 140gr bullets, I tried N560 cause I had a little on hand. Started at 43.0 gr. and increased in 1/2 gr increments up to 45 gr. All shot 1/2 MOA out to 300 yds. easily. I did this during initial testing, but didn't do more because I was getting even better results w/ N160, and Varget. No pressure signs at 45gr w/ the N560. I used 140 and 142 gr Sierras that were molyed. If you haven't, try 44.0gr N160 w/ the 142 gr Sierra. Have you done any testing with N140 on the 6.5/08? I've not but did load some w/ 39.0 gr to see what happens.

Assuming the rifle doesn't blow up in my face (HA), I let you know.
Also, just got a few Hornady 140 AMAX molyed for 6.5 tests, and some Hornady 178gr molyed for testing in 308. New job is kicking my ass and haven't had a chance to shoot in approx 3-4 weeks. Busy, Busy.

Jeff A. <>
Atlanta, Ga USA - Monday, December 21, 1998 at 19:35:25 (EST) 

To Pat, re. 260Rem:

I have no experience with VV 5-series powder in 6.5mm. I use N160 for lopressurerounds with 140gr bullets at 2600fps. RL22/MRP/RP15 take care of higher speeds. If you want some really recoilless fun try Sierra's 107gr MK behind N140 or N150. Go for 3000fps. You'll be amazed.

A sidenote:

When Norway adopted the Krag rifle at the turn of the century a sniperverson with a telescopic sight was tested. The scope was sidemounted due to top ejection. Elevation of the scope was done in the mount with comeups to 2400m on a very clear scale with a dial(?, my english...)! The testteam had no problems whatsoever hitting targets from 800-1000m! This was considered unsportsmanlike and the project was cancelled!!

The 6.5X55 is developed in Norway, then in union with Sweden. One of the main reasons the 6.5 was chosen instead of other calibers was its perforance at very long ranges in something called "destoyeing fire" (raserende ild). This was measured from the height of the average soldier converted to bulletdrop and measuring the targetrange the bullet covered at range. Difficult? I don't remember the numbers but the principle goes like this: At 1200m a 8mm round strafes 150m with 1 soldier/180cm bulletdrop. The 6.5 coveres 200m. The numbers are not correct but it was in this test the 6.5 outperformed all other rounds from 6mm to 8mm including the 7X57.

Oslo, Norway - Tuesday, December 22, 1998 at 08:14:38 (EST) 


What about N140 for 6.5/08. Too fast? I printed a burn rate chart from Hogdon's web site. It lists N140 as a little slower than Varget, and I've had good results w/ Varget and the molyed 140 class bullets. Avg. vel. w/ 38.0 gr of Varget is 2646; ES= 20, Std Dev.=6. Loaded a few w/ 39.0 gr N140 varying seating depth only to see what happens. Haven't had a chance to test w/ N140 yet. You mentioned trying Sierra 107s. Have you ever tried Sierra 120gr in 6.5? I've tried neither at this point. The 140 class is just too beautiful. Felt recoil is almost nill even w/ the 140s. Recently had the 6.5 barrelled action bedded into a McMillan A-2 and replaced the scope mounting base w/ a steel one-piece tapered base. Rifle's kinda heavy at this point. I don't care. It's a dream to shoot.

Jeff A. <>
Atlanta, Ga USA - Tuesday, December 22, 1998 at 20:32:04 (EST) 

To Jeff A, N140 in 6.5mm.

I have these max loads for N140 in 6.5X55:

120gr bullet, 41gr=2800fps.

140gr bullet, 38gr=2550fps.

And these MAX loads for a custom 6.5-08 with 26" Shilen SS barrel (not my gun):

100gr Sierra HP, 46gr N150=3300fps.

155gr Sierra MK, 48gr Norma MRP(RL22)=2700fps...

Reduce loads.etc.

Stay safe.

Oslo, Norway - Tuesday, December 22, 1998 at 22:08:18 (EST) 


Well, N140 justs doesn't quite cut it in 260 with 140gr. Accuracy is good, but not as good as Varget and N160. Plus I think I started seeing some pressure signs at 39.0 gr. Looked like some primer flattening and some cratering. Hey, if got wome data ,please let me know.

Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga USA - Saturday, January 09, 1999 at 11:30:22 (EST) 

Jeff A,
Shot the "Fat Barrel" 260 last night after initial break in. I tried Varget with 140s and 142s not to impressed yet, shot them both into .6s I tried one load of WMR and had 4 in .3 with a flyer so I'll try this load again. It seems to want to shoot but I haven't found the right combo yet but it's still early and I may need to start load testing at 200 or 300 yards. I have read where the long VLD type bullets won't always shoot real well at 100yds but will shoot better at the longer ranges, have you found this to be true?? What about it TorF any ideas??
Pat <>
USA - Thursday, January 21, 1999 at 17:22:34 (ZULU) 

Varget has performed the best for me in 260 with molyed Berger 140vld seated to just touch or approx 0.010" into lans. It did okay in 142 MK and did very well with 140 mk, but seating depth( 0.010" off lans) was significant for accuracy with the 140gr MKs. The 142 MKs seem to like N160 at 44.0 gr seated 0.010" off lans. So far I've settled on 38 or 39 gr Varget for the 140 vld and 44.0 N160 for 142 MK. The 140 does well w/ 38.0 gr Varget or 37.0 gr N135. I'm still not really satisfied w/ a load for the 140...yet.

Also, I have demonstrated it a number of times, as well as read it in a place or two, re: VLDs need at least 200 yd. to, I believe the phrase is "go to sleep", so I don't think 100yd is an accurate barometer to load test when working w/ Berger vld bullets. I'm pretty well convinced that 200yds (300 would be better) does allow the Bergers to show their stuff.

You mentioned you have worked w/ non-molyed bullets. Really, all of the testing I've done has been w/ molyed bullets.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Friday, January 22, 1999 at 05:50:26 (ZULU) 

I lost the info you had told Jeff about on the 140 and 142 MK. I need to know how fast I will have to push them to keep the same ballistics cam as the 300WM on my M3LR. I know I can just use the MOAs, Scott, but since I am tailoring a load for the rifle, hey, why not(HA). Have you tried any of the faster burning powders with the heavier bullets??
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail>
USA - Friday, January 22, 1999 at 20:32:00 (ZULU) 

I saw your post to TorF. Just a minute ago I emailed you a post that he made last July re: M3 cams and 6.5mm bulletts. I saved it as Word97.doc back then; and copy/pasted in the email window and sent it to you. The formatting may be shot but the text ought to be intact. Hope this is what you were asking about.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Saturday, January 23, 1999 at 18:13:09 (ZULU) 

Try varget 38 or 39 gr w/ berger 140 vld just touching or 0.005 to 0.010" into lans on the "fatboy"

Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 00:10:59 (ZULU) 

Jeff A,
I will order some Berger VLDs, but can you load them mag. length and still touch the rifeling?? This is going to be a tactical rifle so I need to be able to feed from the magazine. N 140 is pushing the 140s well over 2700fps and as I recall I think around 2780fps. I am trying to find a load that is both fast and accurate. Have you tried Hornadys new A-Max the BC is .630!! But I am sure you would have to load them as a single round and not out of the magazine.
Pat <>
USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 14:23:30 (ZULU) 

Good point about the oal to fit the mag. The Berger vld, while very accurate, is too long to load in the mag. I'm speaking of a Rem 700 SA magazine. Also, the Sierra 142 MK is also too long for the mag. when seated 0.010" off lans. To me these are drawbacks. Same deal with Bergers 175 and 185 vld for 308.

So far, the Sierra 140 MK is the only one that I can get an OAL and the seating depth I want that will fit the magazine. Best load so far for the 140 MK is 37 gr N135. Probably as tad fast on burn rate but no pressure and good accuracy.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Friday, February 05, 1999 at 22:28:14 (ZULU) 

Jeff, is your 260 built on one of your model 70 classic short actions? if so they have a spacer at the back of the mag box, just pop the spot welds loose and then weld/solder the seam at the rear of the box. This will give you about .250 more length with no other mods. (if it's a remmy I think you are SOL)

Rich <>
WA, USA - Saturday, February 06, 1999 at 00:27:52 (ZULU) 


My 260 is a Rem SA, so I'm SOL as far as mag. lenght.
A few months ago ( when I had some money), I bought a M70 classic featherweight in 280 Rem. It was used but the price was good. I got it for the action,solely. I'm waiting to get money (ain't we all), and at some point will use the M70 action for maybe a 6.5mm/06 (you see this Al O. ?) or a 3006 Ack Imp. I don't know. It's just gathering dust now , maybe sometime in the future.


I haven't tried Hornady 140gr Amax in 260 yet. I have one box that I got molyed... long-ass bullets.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 14:30:37 (ZULU) 

Jeff A,
Thanks for the come back on the 260. I got out this weekend and did some more load testing and will send you some crono info on different powders I tried. I had sort of gave up on Varget and the 142s because of the length but I tried some 142s with 37grs of Varget loaded mag length and they shot 10 shots into 2.2 at 400yds and a 5 shot at 1.6 so I think I will try them again. The Pac Nor barrel is fnatastic, smooth as any I have ever had and broke in in 25rds!! I shoot 25 to 30 rounds and have about 2 patchs with any blue then nothing!! (I am not shooting off a bench at 400, using the ground and a bipod as I would for tactical shooting).

Pat <>
USA - Monday, February 08, 1999 at 14:35:39 (ZULU) 

5) I have an old browning A-bolt 30-06 that I want to rebuild. I am considering a Hvy Hart match barrel in 6.5-06, fluted, cut to 20" and finished with a matte roguard finish. Action refined, trigger set to 3lb or replaced, and a bead blasted/plated matte finish on all hardware. A McMillian McHale bedded adjustible stock. I will be mounting either an MK4 M1 or a US Optics 10x on it. I am looking to create a light weight tactical style rifle in 10lb range for mid range 5-700 yd shooting. Rifle will be used for range work and sheep hunting. Anyone have any thougths about the 6.5-06 and the barrel length? I currently own a lot of custom 7mm and 30 cal rifles. Thats why the 6.5-06. I also like the short throw bolt and mag feed of the browning action. Any comments would be welcomed. Thanks...
Tony Y
Iselin, NJ, USA - Saturday, February 13, 1999 at 14:39:06 (ZULU) 
Tony Y,
You don't want to use a 20" barrel on a 6.5 -06 it will be burning most of the powder on the outside of the barrel. You would be better off with a 260 or if you want to wild cat try a 6mm-6.5 that would be close to the ideal case size for the 6.5 bullet. I personally feel to get the advantage of the high BC of the 6.5 bullet you need to have the longer barrel and push it out to around 2700fps. Just my opinion.
Pat <>
USA - Sunday, February 14, 1999 at 01:04:56 (ZULU) 
Are you still out there?? If so How fast can you guys push a 140 out of the 6.5s that you shoot?? and have you ever played with the 6.5-06??? I have a friend who is looking to build one that will push a 140 A-Max at 3000fps.
Pat <>
USA - Wednesday, February 24, 1999 at 14:22:13 (ZULU) 
To Pat, re. 6.5-06.

I'm still out here. Working A LOT with the Y2K problem. Going to do a clocktest this easter.

I've seen a couple of 6.5-06 projects. They were not successful because they used european barrels. Couldn't break 3000fps with 140gr bullets. The 6.5-06 should be able to do it with tighter US-barrels. I've seen .264WM/3100fps and .264-3000/3300fps. Barrellife is less than 1500 rounds. I prefer .260/6.5X55/6.5-284 at 2700-2900fps. Very effective and with a round barrellife. 140gr molycoated bullets at 2600fps gives you 8-10000 round barrellife in SS-barrels.

The ultra high velocity 6.5mm rounds seem to work better with leighter bullets. I'd try bullets in the 120gr range. Nosler 125gr for hunting. The germans use 100-120gr for the 6.5-68.

TorF <>
Oslo, Norway - Wednesday, February 24, 1999 at 22:10:49 (ZULU) 

I'll work on that 6,5 140 grain 3000 fps problem you got there, shouldnt take long. Sierra says they are getting 2950 fps out of their Winchester gun, ours are just a bit quicker on the go due to tighter bores.

JR <>
rapid city, sd, USA - Thursday, February 25, 1999 at 05:23:38 (ZULU) 

on the 6,5 ,going by Sierra, they use a 1/8" twist barrel, I think you could go with a 1/9-9.5" twist, then your 100-120 gr bullets would also stabilize, which you should be shooting anyway

JR <>
rapid city, sd, USA - Thursday, February 25, 1999 at 05:35:22 (ZULU) 

The guy with the 6.5 problem wants to push the 140 A-MAX to around 3000fps for long range shooting out to 1000yds but doesn't want a "Barrel burner". I know the 6mm-06 and the 6mm-284s are barrel burners but there pushing light bullets and maybe using more powder. I've been looking at maybe a 257 case or even a 6mm case this may be enough to get right around the 3000fps mark. I have a 260 with a 1x8 twist and it will push the 142s to 2800 with no pressure signs. He wants to use the rifle for tactical shooting and thats why he doesn't want a barrel burner because a lot of rounds will go down range and some in quick sucession. I should be out to Rapid on the afternoon of the 2nd at around 3:30 your time or I can meet with you the next day after lunch let me know what will work for you.

Good to hear from you again!!! Thanks for the info I'll pass it on. If you read my post to JR you will see I was trying to come up with a compromise, something inbetween the 260 and the 06 case. My 260 is shooting half minute MOA out to 500yds so far, so I will put you in my will after all(HA)
Pat <>
USA - Thursday, February 25, 1999 at 14:31:15 (ZULU) 

To all,
There seems to be a certain amount of interest in the various 6.5mm cartridges of late. Here is a web site that gives some reloading data on several 6.5 cartridges:
At this site there is also some info on crimping vs not crimping and some test results on fire-lapping for different rifles.

Steve <>
S.C.D.H., Ohio, USA - Saturday, February 27, 1999 at 16:07:01 (ZULU) 

If you get a chance would you e.mail me and let me know what kind of velocity I could expect to get out of a 6.5x55 with the 140s . I want to know if 2900 to 2950 with todays powder and barreevels would be realistic and safe . I am thinking about a Remington long action and a 1 in 8 twist with the 140 A-Max with the .630 BC . We looked at the .257 Roberts case but it is so close to the 6.5x55 it wouldnt pay to mess with trying to find dies. I could go improved but then the problem of forming 3 to 400 cases doesn't appeal to me. I also thought about the 6.5x284 rather than the 6.5x06.The guy wants to use the rifle for tactical shooting.

Pat <>
USA - Sunday, February 28, 1999 at 18:25:52 (ZULU) 


Hey everyone! I've been reading here for a while but haven't made any noise here I go.

I'm about to set up my first "sniper" rig. I've been playing with deer guns and AK's for a long time now, but now I want to play a little more :)

I need some help guys...and as far as a rifle, I'm leaning towards a Rem. 700 VLS in 6mm or 308. I'd rather have the .308 but I know that 6mm is a lot flatter-shooting cartridge so I'm torn there as well. I just want to be able to shoot all ranges up to 1000 yards and hit whatever I want to.

Thanks for the help in advance!
jtnaylor <>
Little Rock, AR, USA - Thursday, August 03, 2000 at 00:15:57 (ZULU) (your host address:

JT Wrote. "I just want to be able to shoot all ranges up to 1000 yards and hit whatever I want to."

Damn dude. You aint asking for much are you?

Stick with .308 unless you are an avid handloader.

Gooch <>
USA - Thursday, August 03, 2000 at 04:26:50 (ZULU) (your host address:

JT; Repeat after me L-E-U-P-O-L-D FourX14 Tactical. ON .308 MODEL 700 Remington. PSS OR VS/VSS/VSSF . wid da 40MM tubeeeee! Now we are at 1000 yards and we hit "just about" everything we shoot at. 6mm will not cut it at that distance unless you put it in a wildcat case and burn yo barrel hot. USE the Mil dot model unless there is a compelling reason not too. Now Lito, you hold the gun on me so I can recite the TASCO recommendatation to this guy!
Bill Rogers <>
USA - Thursday, August 03, 2000 at 12:47:05 (ZULU) (your host address:
Listen to "Yote Bait" even though he's a died in the wool varmint hunter and a 6MM is a great varmint round its not a good 1000yd round unless you have a custom rifle built with the fast twist to shoot the 107grVLD bullets. The 308 is hard to beat. I am playing with the 6.5s but both my 260s are showing signs of being hard on barrels. If you want to do tactical shooting your barrels will get hot and heat kills the small bores twice as fast. The 308 is much more forgiving when you have to abuse it. Just my 2cents worth.
Pat <>
USA - Thursday, August 03, 2000 at 16:17:48 (ZULU) (your host address:
Yep, listen to the Bullet man on the 6mm. I'd have to agree you got to do the voo-doo to get the 6mm to 1000 or so but,, Mini Yars ago I had an old .244 (6mm for those in Rio Linda) Remington with a big long Unertl that I used to bruise ego's on a Military range bout 500 was all I think. But it was the scope that made em cringe (they didn't have any). the Bullets were only 85 grain. Bullet man is right, the standard 6mm loading won't get there and do the job. He's so right about the barrels too (thars worse than 6mms on barrels though).

Bill Rogers <>
USA - Friday, August 04, 2000 at 01:30:01 (ZULU) (your host address:

Hey guys,

Thanks lots for all the advice. It appears I do need to go with a fixed power scope, although there were some negative comments about the Tasco scopes (and some really good ones too).

I think I have actually decided to go with the Savage 12 series with the stainless fluted barrel and laminated stock just to be different. Everyone that shoots at my range is toting a Remington 700 (I know that there's a reason for that). Anyway our 600 yard range won't be complete for a few more monts and my NEW WIFE has told me I can't buy another gun/scope until I buy us new living room furniture. So anyway
it looks like it will be another month before I get this thing purchased.

Until then I'll just keep plowing down the 6" plates @300 yards with my little 16" barreled AK-47 with a 1x magnification Kobra holo sight.
1 shot...1 plate.

I'll let you know as soon as I start smacking new toys on my credit card.

Thanks again,

jtnaylor <>
Little Rock, AR, USA - Friday, August 04, 2000 at 04:34:35 (ZULU) (your host address:

6MM and long range

The post about the 6MM not being a long range round is incorrect.
I have a 6MM IMP with 8" twist and it pushes a 107 BTHP at 3200 fps. Wind drift for a 10 mph wind at 1000 is 69". THe 308 168 at the same range is 115". The trajectory is also quite a bit flatter. For the wind velocity challenged such as myself,it cuts my guessing in half!
Yes it is a custom barrel and chamber.But so are most barrels on a custom tactical rifle. THere are drawbacks (no commercial ammo). As for barrel life. My rifle has somewhere around 1000 rds down the pipe and it still shoots better than I can.
Just my opinion.
Bill B.
Bill Byford <>
IL, USA - Saturday, August 05, 2000 at 05:50:29 (ZULU) (your host address:

Bill Byford; I think someone mentioned that bullet as a long range thing (read back a few posts) and although most conventional rifles would have a little trouble getting bullet to 3200 I'm willing to buy that wildcat loadings (which I mentioned) will get you there as well as custom guns (Mr. Rice will give you a 6mm ride if you want one). Most people are talking conventional .243 Winchester rifles and that's what I responded too. There are those here who have taken .223 to the limits of physics and done some astounding things and although you can be praised for mentioning it, my post about he 6mm was in the conventional no aftermarket barrels or twists sense. There is always someone in the shooting game whether it's rifle or pistol or whatever that will push the limit of the science and amaze and astound. I pretty much live in the real world around here but you're all free to play as you wish, that makes the world go around.... I mainly shoot .308 and .223 12ga and .45 (cept for my .41m business gun) cause I have an Uncle who make the brass and makes it cheap for me once he shoots it. MY Uncle is just like me, he lives and trains his troops for the real world. In Mr. Rogers' neighorhood of today here and now, Coyotes are scoungy critters that don't care what they get shot with.... and up yours Wylie Coyote, just watch yore mangy ass come October!
Bill Rogers <>
USA - Saturday, August 05, 2000 at 13:26:27 (ZULU) (your host address:
Mr. Rodgers

I didn't intend to ruffle any feathers. I saw your post and thought I'd mention my take on it.
As for the other calibers you mentioned, I to own and play with each and think they are all OUTSTANDING!
I'm sure Mr. Rice builds very fine rifles as I have read the post on this site. All of my rifles are built by Bill Wylde. He has built 3 for me (and hopefully a 4th 6.5x284 in the future) and they are all outstanding shooters.
Like I said. No p***ing contest. I read your post and usually agree with your opinions and humor.

Respectfully Bill B.
Bill Byford <>
IL, USA - Sunday, August 06, 2000 at 15:33:59 (ZULU) (your host address:

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