I realize that this site is for those who have an interest in shooting
beyond the socalled "norm" but unless you have been schooled in the field
or closely associated with "Target Interdictors", you have no idea of the
scope of information and knowledge needed to mount an operation. I believe
Mr's Jarrett & Gooch will bear that out. Just having a weapon and ammo
and camo doesn't always CYA !!!! Being a former 91B2S and a "old" 11F2S
(SF Medic and a "recon &intel" grunt)having a wealth of other info
comes in mighty handy.....I don't mean to say we need to teach "in-country"
briefs here in SC but what about Land Navigation techniques and some Field
1st Aid for that "just in case" stuff that occurs??? I mean, does any one
besides me carry a 1st aid kit in my truck AND one on me when I hunt ????
Nothing major, but say you break a leg while hunting......and your buddies
don't expect you back till dark and then a cold front sweeps in ???? How
prepared wil you be ?? Got matches??? What about a space blanket or for
that matter, any flares ???
Got on the soapbox didn't I ?? Some food for thought, its not always a man and his weapon !! OUT HERE !!
Under cover Deep South, USA - Sunday, October 11, 1998 at 07:28:25 (EDT)
go ahead and give us some of your brain on field first aid!
I have a British Gregson first aid pouch that I added some things
to. Its a foldup plastic deal with easy to understand instructions in cartoon
like pictures, I have a short length of paracord and a small OD green plastic
tag with a red cross attached to it. I stuff the pack in my ruck and let
the tag dangle out of the pocket. I have had five concussions so far and
on three of them I was unconsious, so I thought it would be a good idea
to let other people know where I carry my first aid kit. Have some HIV
gloves and a space bag as well, also a small SAM splint.
The small bandaids and Aspirin and the tick tweezers and antiseptic get the most use though. Also, have any of you noted that you end up using the stuff for other buddies most of the time, and they never bother to get their s**t together! A small shaving kit type bag works good for makeing your own kit, take it to a drug store and fill it there, when seing the stuff on the shelf you find more than one uses for some things and 10-15 $ go a long way.
Germany - Sunday, October 11, 1998 at 10:02:54 (EDT)
Will - I carry a basic jump kit in my car complete with cervical collars and I have actually needed them before. I also carry a first aid kit hunting or when I go backpacking. In addition to the normal stuff(band-aids, tweezers, etc), I carry gear for eye injuries and an Extractor(for snake bites). I've never had to use the Extractor,but I live in snake heaven and don't want to be left high and dry. I also have never had to use the Epi-pen that I carry religiously.
Shreveport, Louisiana USA - Sunday, October 11, 1998 at 16:24:52 (EDT)
I have to agree with the first aid comments made, and yes at least
I carry a "kit" with me. Here in Alaska it is not uncommon to drive 4 -
6 hours away from "civilization" before you even set out on foot ( or snowmobile
etc ) I have taken and would HIGHLY recomend what is called a "first responder"
or Emergency Trauma Treatment " ( ETT ) course.
it is one step down from an EMT if I remember correctly it was a week long course of about an hour a night. Though I am not " authorized " to do so I have found it desireable to be able to put in some crude stitches at times. There is a time element involved. Anyway you have to think about the whole situation. Best case scenario here is that our Rescue squadron ( my Air gaurd affiliation ) stands alert but also has a one hour ( we generally do much better than that ) response time. and then you can be looking at upwards of an hour air time. provided the weather cooperates. Shock blood loss and stabilization are the BIG things to worry about "In field"
as Depity Dave sez,
Alaska USA - Sunday, October 11, 1998 at 18:43:30 (EDT)
How many guys remember to take along this stuff? How many bring epinephrin, cortazone, and benedril besides band-aids? It is not a "glamorous" topic, but one well worth the space.
USA - Monday, October 12, 1998 at 11:50:14 (EDT)
What is the best way to deal with blood loss, after getting the flow
stopped, is there any way to get a refill in the field? I am thinking about
something an individual can carry (without a refrigerated blood bank in
WA USA - Monday, October 12, 1998 at 12:48:27 (EDT)
Rich - On blood replacement, of coarse the best thing is blood. In the absence of refrigeration it goes bad in a matter of hours. Two fluids quickly come to mind - Hetastarch (Hespan) and 5% Albumin. These are excellent for volume replacement due to the fact that they stay in the vascular space (blood vessels) better than other IV fluids, but they are very expensive. Two common IV fluids are 0.9% Sodium Chloride (Normal Saline) and Lactated Ringers (Ringers Lactate). They are relatively inexpensive and have long shelf lives. The Lactated Ringers is best for volume replacement for traumatic blood loss in my opinion. It has a compound which when synthesized in the liver causes the liver to secrete bicarbonate. "Bicarb" helps protect the body from the acidosis that is a common complication of trauma. Hope I didn't confuse the issue guys.
Shreveport, Louisiana USA - Monday, October 12, 1998 at 21:19:07 (EDT)
Grey mentioned the Emergency Responder class. There are several forms of these around, but the best overall seems to be the one from the American Red Cross (which is the one I ended up taking.) It's also recognized by the DoT. Duration is normally something like 45 hours. Of course it's designed for every-day-USA, not for snipers in the field but it's still a good class and I would recommend it as a good place to start.
San Jose, CA USA - Tuesday, October 13, 1998 at 13:07:06 (EDT)
Brent - I'd be very carful with the Abumin, it takes fluids out of the tissue to replace blood lose. Fine if the person is hydrated, however if the wound is a burn, crush injury, or simple dehydration, you could do more damage then good. I'd stay away from Albumin unless it was an open wound and the person was hydrated. Just thoughts on passing events. My chose would be the Ringers, good all around fluid for first response situations.
Fayetteville, NC USA - Tuesday, October 13, 1998 at 21:39:17 (EDT)
Brent, where do I get "Ringers Lactate"? is this a restricted item or is it commonly available? thanks both Brant and Rick on this matter.
WA USA - Wednesday, October 14, 1998 at 01:05:06 (EDT)
Rich - Lactated Ringers is not a controlled substance. You may try talking to an EMS provider about purchasing a couple of bags. I am not sure how easy it will be for you to get. I work in the SICU of a Level 1 trauma center as a RN and still occasionally work on the street/air as a Paramedic. If you have problems getting some LR let me know and I will look into it.
Shreveport, Louisiana USA - Wednesday, October 14, 1998 at 18:00:58 (EDT)
On the IV solutions - It is nice to have them but remember that you must be able to hit a vein with the least trauma and cause the least trauma while in a field environment. This may mean moving him to a location for evac under less than Ideal circumstances. That would require the use of and angiocath or similar IV set up. Otherwise the needle will slice the vein up and the IV will infiltrate the site. All of this requires training and if you are going to carry, then you need the training. Laws from state to state may dictate whether you will be able to carry needles and IV set ups. Don't be a victum of an over zealous agent of the law.
Fayetteville, NC USA - Wednesday, October 14, 1998 at 23:33:38 (EDT)
Rick - You are correct. If you are not in the medical capacity you could run into snag if caught with IV supplies. I won't carry anything but basic supplies ( bandages, splints, etc.) in my vehicle. When I'm off-duty I am not covered by my medical director to initiate advanced life support therepy (IV's, meds, adv. airway adjuncts). Without the training and education, you could do more harm than good.
That's it for the medical stuff for a while. Sarge and a few of us are going to put our heads soon for a separate medical segment as to not clutter the Duty Roster.
Shreveport, Louisiana USA - Friday, October 16, 1998 at 01:40:22 (EDT)
Re: 1st Aid in the field. I have been remiss in not replying to some
emails about this and Sarge is out having fun hunting while I slave over
a hot computer.....Oh well, ya gotta do what ya gotta... !! FIRST and foremost-
TAKE SOME CLASSES !!!! If you aren't a current Medic, EMT,Paramedic,responder
or anything similar....LEARN. Buy, go to library or borrow some emergency
1st aid literature !!! A VERY GOOD manual is the SF MEDICAL Manual published
by Palladin Press (I think) If this is for your own use then at least have
an idea of what you need for your AO and conditions. Since I live in the
South and hunt and shoot in some rather hot and humid conditions , I bring
water an also have some purification tablets just in case. Some places
its not a bad idea to have some"Over the Counter"(OTC) Benadryl or something
along those lines. As far as snakebites.....ask your family MD or any medical
personnel in your AO. Will you have a problem with hypothermia ? Carry
a space blanket. Do you need signaling devices?? OF COURSE !! What type??
Flares, Whistle, ground marker and last but not least compass AND GPS device
This could get real long...so I'll keep this short. Bandaids, a dressing, tape, antiseptic, some 550 cords(lots of uses),fire starting material and firestarter(more than just a lighter). Geez...feel like I am back at "Snake eater 101" at Mackall or Area 7 at Eglin. Hmm..
Enough, for now. OUT HERE
Somewhere in the South, USA - Sunday, November 01, 1998 at 15:11:34 (EST)
What is considered must have for a BDU pocket or ruck.
Jeff A. Can ya help us with the pharamcutical concoctions (brand vs generic) like Benadryl, NeoMycin/ Betadin ointments etc. etc.
BIG City, bY-GaWD USA - Tuesday, November 17, 1998 at 09:04:03 (EST)
Re: Field medicine. If an ointment/cream medication had a place in sniper gear at all, I would say two would cover it. Betadine (providone iodine) ointment as topical antiinfective, and 1% hydrocortisone cream as topical antiinflamatory( I believe 1% is over the counter in most states).
Not knowing what is standard for military field medicine, I won't venture. Possibly a combination kit (ie AnaKit) for topic al as well as internal allergic/anaphylactic reactions ranging from moderate to severe. Kit contains injectable epinephrine; oral dexamethasone; oral and topical benadryl(diphenhydramine) and a couple other things (maybe topical epi solution). But, really, I'm not sure at all due to the aspects of weight limitation and mission type that would, I imagine, dictate what you may or may not carry.
Jeff A. <firstname.lastname@example.org>
downtown Atlanta,, Ga USA - Tuesday, November 17, 1998 at 16:29:05 (EST)
Jeff, good choice on "drugs" for your first aid kit!
All, a number of years ago I came acorss, and don't remember where
or how, a small, plastic, watertight box I use for my "personal" first
aid kit. This is the one I carry on me and is VERY VERY simple. Back to
this box - its military issue about 4"x4"x1 1/2 or 2" has a hinged top
complete with O-ring seal that makes it watertight. In it I carry: several
sizes of band-aids, Betadine and Alcohol swabs, a small roller gauze, a
roll of 1" silk adhesive tape, several 2x2's and 4x4's, aspirin and tylenol
(2 tab packets), a surgical knife blade (similar to a sharp pointed X-acto
blade) spare waterproof matches, 2 spare batteries (AA) for a small flashlight
and 2 spare bulbs for the same flashlight. As I said this is a VERY VERY
simple kit and not designed to do more than care for MINOR scrapes, scratches
or cuts you'd get. Two (2) other items I carry but not in this box are
a cravat (triangle bandage) this is small flat and I usually use it as
a head band until it's needed for other purposes. Last and definately not
least is a army issue individual first aid dressing - for those that have
been in the military you know the one you're suppose to take from your
buddy and use on him if he's "wounded". VERY compact 1/2" x 2 x 3 something
like that (until you open the package then its 4x5 something with "tails"
you can use to tie it on). Now if you REALLY want to talk about a first
aid kit I'll run through what is in my M-5 Bag (military first aid bag
- relatively large) or whats in my trauma kit (VERY large fishing tackle
type box)definately NOT for carry afield! I'll be working on getting together
a "first aid" kit that is usable but not to bulky - which reminds me what
do you'all consider TO large?? Give me some idea of the size "kit" you'all
want to carry and I'll "stock" it accordingly! BTW - millitary issue items
- if you can get them - are "the" way to go! If you have one of those things
you use to "vacuum" seal items with (or have access to one) making larger
items smaller is easy! The above are what I carry and your needs may differ
Again, give me a general idea of what size kit you think is appropriate and I'll tell you what I'd fill it with!
Area 51, NM USA - Tuesday, November 17, 1998 at 22:24:45 (EST)
As a retired Baltimore City Band-aid Passer I like your kit but I would add just a few things 1) Asprin, not Advil or Tylinol, asprin has more uses. 2)Gelucel antacid, packs well and you never know what you might be eating! 3)Cramer Lube, can be found where Athletic Training (team) supplies are found, this is a super thick vasoline that makes an excilent blister covering. Cover blister with lube then a 2x2 and loosely tape in place. The bandage slips and friction doesn't enrage the blister or hot spot. 4)1 roll each of 2" and 3" Kling. All of this will pack down small and save you a lot of pain and frustration if needed.
Depity Dave <email@example.com>
Just getting going in frosted over, West Virginia USA - Wednesday, November 18, 1998 at 08:27:21 (EST)
About what to put in the medical bags, one of the suggestions is "Asprin, not Advil or Tylinol, asprin has more uses. " I am a migraine sufferer, and my current snuff that I got recently, about three weeks ago, is Tramal and Valium - 10mg. Will I then take that, or what other uses are there for aspirin?
Marius Ferreira <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Pretoria, Gauteng, RSA - Wednesday, November 18, 1998 at 09:38:37 (EST)
Deputy Dave- on the asprin, there would only be one instance that asprin might not be the drug of choice. After sustaining a bleeding wound, asprin may decrease platelet aggregation preventing a clot from forming for a good while. However, if the bleeding is already controled then I think it would be fine. Naprosyn is a prescription drug that is over-the-counter as "Alleve". It has excellent fever and pain relief qualities. It dosen't mess up your bleeding times and is more liver injury sparing than Tylenol.
Shreveport, Louisiana USA - Wednesday, November 18, 1998 at 14:58:31 (EST)
I use Alleve for back pain (old compression fractures T-6,7&8) but, I have never desolved it on a tooth ache or gargled it for a sore throat.
Good point though, always make sure your kit contains any medication that might be specific to your condition.
Depity Dave <email@example.com>
All sighted in and ready for deer season next week in, Magnificent, West Virginia USA - Wednesday, November 18, 1998 at 18:40:28 (EST)
Correct on the aspirin, it CAN increase clotting times if you have a problem with that. However, taken in normal dosages it is not a significant problem. DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT disolve aspirin on a tooth to relieve s toothache!!! The acid in aspirin (acetlcylic acid I know I didn't spell that right) WILL kill a tooth!!! Aleve - use it freqently myself for various aches and pains, good long lasting stuff. I TOTALLY agree on having ANY MEDICATION you take routinely with you! Enough for several days even if you do not PLAN on being gone that long! Also for those that wear glasses - have an extra pair that will get you through if the ones you're wearing get broken! When I get new ones I put the old pair in my "kit". Kling or roller gauze - again good stuff and I have numerous rolls of different sizes in all of my bigger kits but not in the "personal" kit that goes (more or less) on my belt.
Keep it going folks all these are GREAT ideas and suggestions!
Area 51, NM USA - Thursday, November 19, 1998 at 01:54:22 (EST)
USA - Wednesday, February 03, 1999 at 08:40:15 (ZULU)