( For comments on bedding and stocks also look at Bedding )
Greensburg, Pa USA - Thursday, October 22, 1998 at 18:31:30 (EDT)
Al Ostapowicz <email@example.com>
Back Home again in my Sweeties' Arms in Lustful, Ohio USA - Thursday, October 22, 1998 at 21:53:04 (EDT)
I am putting a UARS stock together as a demonstrator for police departments to play with. I give you the feedback as I get it.
Now, I may be wrong about this Choate, maybe I need more convincing about its merits.
Al Ostapowicz <firstname.lastname@example.org>
South of Canada, but North of Mexico in the Grand Republic of , Ohio USA - Friday, October 23, 1998 at 08:33:17 (EDT)
S.C.D.H., Ohio USA - Friday, October 23, 1998 at 21:47:10 (EDT)
While performing recon on this company, I came across a mention of it here back in August and wanted to ask a few questions.to get an idea of what I am buying. The stock will be for a M1 Garand.
1. How much fitting and sanding is needed? I have time to do finish sanding, but not major shaping of the stock. I would prefer a guesstimate in hours for the sanding part, since "not much" or "a lot" isn't very informative.
2. What grade of wood would probably match an issue stock? I don't want to go below issue grade, but buying the AAA Select Super Fancy would look silly on a military gun.
Sarge - your post on the subject was especially helpfull. (now where did he go to .... @%&^ camoflauge)
Thanks and please send me email - I don't lurk around here often.
Karl Dahm <email@example.com>
Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN USA - Saturday, October 31, 1998 at 18:01:03 (EST)
I'm personally glad Jeff A. is pleased with his stock.
I on the other hand have had a totally dis-satisfied experience with this company.I ordered my Benchmark stock in August and still have not received delivery as of yet.Every time I phone regarding my order I am assured that it will be be shipped out in a few days.
Three weeks ago my Visa statement showed up with a charge for my order.Today I phoned and guess what they told me ?If you guessed,"It will be shipped out in afew days," then move yourself to the head of the class please !
I then told the lady on the other end of the phone that I was told it had been shipped three weeks ago and that it should have been here by now.I asked to talk to someone that knew something regarding my order.
Some guy answered the phone and said,"I think it went out yesterday,".So then told him my story and said this kind of cutomer service was un-acceptable.I said,"Your catalogue says 4-5 weeks for delivery, not 4-5 months,".
I asked for a tracking number so that I could track the delivery progress of my parcel through the post office. He claimed he had none.I asked him to check up on my order and call me back immediately.Well, I'm still waiting for that call.
The only reason I'm telling my long sad story here is to help those of you out there from making the same mistake I did.I'm a big boy and can take my licks so I don't want to seem like a crybaby.
If I could give anybody any advice dealing with mail order business it would be:
(1) Deal only with companies that you can trust and that have a strong reputation for customer service.
(2) Don't give out credit card numbers to companies you've never had done business with before.It goes back to the issue of trust.
(3) Do your business C.O.D. whenever possible.Hey, lets face it, if they ship your goods this way you can bet that they're probably on the up and up.
(4) If you can find an honest company with great customer service,then stick with them even if their product(s) are slightly more in price.
I hope that some of Roster visitors can learn from my mistake,and and save yourself from the kind of situation I am now faced with.
Jeff Babineau <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Truro, N.S. Canada - Friday, November 13, 1998 at 16:14:24 (EST)
Any help on a good stock and bedding methods would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Brian M. <email@example.com>
Tustin, CA USA - Monday, November 16, 1998 at 06:24:58 (EST)
WA USA - Monday, November 16, 1998 at 15:34:03 (EST)
Bach Melick <firstname.lastname@example.org>
New Orleans, LA USA - Monday, November 16, 1998 at 18:47:42 (EST)
WA USA - Tuesday, November 24, 1998 at 15:19:41 (EST)
Fayetteville, NC USA - Saturday, December 26, 1998 at 15:53:19 (EST)
Lou S <email@example.com>
S. Fla. USA - Saturday, December 26, 1998 at 20:41:48 (EST)
USA - Saturday, December 26, 1998 at 21:51:54 (EST)
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif. USA - Saturday, December 26, 1998 at 17:11:12 (EST)
Why screw with it? With the HS stocks you get a aluminum block which requires no bedding, aluminum through the forestock for the sling swivels to attach to, and no swelling under high humidity conditions (although most properly treated laminates are swell free too).
USA - Sunday, December 27, 1998 at 12:07:01 (EST)
Al Ostapowicz <firstname.lastname@example.org>
"Stockin' Up in the Grand Republic of , Ohio USA - Sunday, December 27, 1998 at 18:02:15 (EST)
Fayetteville, NC USA - Sunday, December 27, 1998 at 22:50:45 (EST)
The key word in rifle stocks is ERGONOMICS. A rifle stock must fit the shooter or the system will not work to it's full capability.
I have used several stocks over the years, these include the HS-Precision, McMillian A-1, A-2 and A-3, Accuarcy International rifles, Choate Ultimate Sniper, and various wooden stocks. I am currently testing a TechniCarbon Dynamics Stock.
When considering a stock pattern the shooter/ Sniper will have to experiment with the various desgins and find the one that fits them. Remember every shooter is different and what might be ideal for me may not be for the next guy. The problems I encounter with a stock design may not occure to someone else.
The HS Precision stock used on the M-24 is an excellent stock for it's intended purpose. The problem's I have encountered with it stem from the angle of the pistol grip/ small of the stock. The angle is to much for me to comfortably grasp. The bedding block system works. I have seem some of these rifles improve in the repeatibility when properly bedded. (If the rifle needs help to maintain the first shot repeatability then by all means have the rifle bedded.) I would like to see an adjustable cheek piece and do away with the adjustable length of pull mechanisim. Spacers work well when adjusting the length of pull. I just never could feel comfortable wrapping cardboard and duct tape to get a proper cheek weld.
The McMillian A-1 stock suffers from the same problems as the HS stock with the lack of an adjustable cheek piece, and the pistol grip angle. The A-2 and A-3 stocks have a good grip angle and the A-3's adjustable cheek piece is second to none. I prefere the narrower forend of the A-3 as I am a bit old fashioned I still teach the use of a sling along with the use of supported rests. (Still not a real big fan of the Bi-Pod though.) When having one of these stocks bedded insist on having it bedded with Devcon Titanium. This material will last the life of the barrel if bedded properly. What more would one want??
I reciently purchased a TechniCarbon Dynamics stock for testing. The first impression was one of the Accuarcy International stock. While a fine rifle and stock system. The bottom of my trigger hand makes contact with the stock at the bottom of the thumb hole area and is not comfortable. The Accuarcy International rifles are designed to be shot from either shoulder and both hands make the same contact. The TechniCarbon stock does not make as much contact and after it is bedded I will give an honest to goodness thrashing and see what shakes out. The problem of the contact with the stock in the thumb hole area is not just with these two stocks. The Choate Ultimate Sniper stock has trhe same problem. (Maybe my hand is just to big.) The other problem with the Ultimate Sniper Stock is it's angled forend. I have just never had any luck finding a surface where it sits as well as a flat forend.
First shot repeatability is the mandate of the modern sniper rifle. Wood Stocks are for sporting purposes and have no place on a sniper rifle. They are affected by moisture, and heat to much. Besides they will not take the beating a sniper rifle will encounter.
Try as many stock patterns before you spend your hard earned money or your department's money on a new stock. As for bedding the rifle needs bedding have it done by a compitent gunsmith and insist on the Devcon Titanium product. If they don't want to do it go see someone else. Find a real gunsmith who understands the stresses the rifle will be used under and stick with him. There are not may of them.
Bruce G. Buell, NCDS
Senior Instructor, IDRC
Bruce G. Buell <email@example.com>
Jacksonville, FL USA - Monday, December 28, 1998 at 23:12:37 (EST)
Just read your post re: stocks. Very good. I agree that the A-2 grip config. is a bit more user/wrist friendly (to me,anyway) than the M-24 by HS. The shape of the Richard's Microfit tactical laminant feels identical to the Lonewolf tactical. It has an Anchutz(?)-like look and feel. The grip is close to vertical (moreso than A-2) and is offset to the right to accomodate the right handed shooter. Very nice feel. If I lie prone for any lenght of time at all, the stress to the wrist becomes noticeable somewhat w/ the M-24. Not so w/ A-2 or the Richard's tactical.
On an impulse purchase, I ordered a tecnicarbon dynamics for Rem SA. Walt's great to talk to. Only problem is I've nothing to put in it. So, I'm holding this stock w/ all the extras, and nothing to do with it. Yet. May have to sell it at some point. Anyway, if I ever get to the point (read win the lotto), the next project will be with a M70 classic LA w/ 308 boltface. Probably in a McMillan. Probably in 308 or 260( or maybe 6.5/06) so I can seat vld bullets out and not be limited by mag. size. Whoops, going a little tangential , sorry. I haven't really ever treated any of the rifles roughly, so I don't know how sturdy they are. But, I had them built with strenght and sturdiness in mind. Of course, after each shooting, I clean thoroughly, and wipe them down with a diaper. Go figure.
Jeff A. <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Atlanta, Ga USA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 20:53:10 (EST)
Mike M. <DMMDNLN@AOL.COM>
Calif USA - Tuesday, December 29, 1998 at 21:29:38 (EST)
I used A Choate sniper stock this past season in Fullbore "F" Class shooting. This type shooting is done from the ground, off bag and bipod, with scope. Not particularly different from serious work or hunting varmints.
Not much to offer on implanting a removable magazine, but I must say I did like the stock for shooting off the ground with a bipod. Off the bench is a different subject!
The stock that I used was 700 ADL. For a drop-in it was excellent.
Accuracy, as far as I was concerned, was equal to anything that I have. I do recall that I had to make a slight mod. to the accessory hanger in order to fix the particular Harris bipod that I was using and immediately tossed the plastic eared (accessory plate) jamb nut that slipped on the common hex head screw that was issued.
The front end of the sniper stock is not as rigid as I would like for serious work. It seems they left a lot of cooling room in that area at the expense of rigidity. The angle of the butt, from pistol grip to buttplate is roughly on the same plane as the barreled action. This is not good if a quick second shot is necessary, especially off the bench. What I'm saying is that far too much "hunting" is necessary for quick target acquisition. Off hard ground, the threaded elevation pedistal on the bottom of the butt is fine, but in soft ground it would be next to useless. Also, the stock is a bit heavy to use for as a carry rifle.
My stock came with two cheekpieces. One or the other should fill the bill. Also, length of pull and buttplate positing is adjustable to the point that about anyone could fit the stock.
All in all, I was quite pleased for the dollar. If you are considering this stock for varmint hunting, I would offer that Choate has a varmint stock that might be a little more pleasing off the bench. Also, a little more rigid and less angled in the front end. My stock, in the off season, is also used for testing barreled actions. It serves very well for this purpose, and offers a barrel channel large enough for anything I see.
I like it!
Bill Wylde <email@example.com>
FROZEN - SE, IL USA - Saturday, January 09, 1999 at 00:17:46 (EST)
Tom B.: I dont have any experiance with the LOD stocks so I cant say good or bad. I do know that they have to be bedded. The UARS stock is a true drop in on an aluminum rail. Whole thing from start to finish takes about 15 minutes and the groups on the gun we tested on were cut in half. If you dont get TS, send me an e-mail and I will send you a copy of the article.
The gun belongs to Jim LeMay. Jim, you out there? What are your comments on the stock?
Rod Ryan <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Elk Garden, WV, USA - Friday, January 29, 1999 at 02:41:28 (ZULU)
All of the bolt action recievers I deal with have their safeties positioned so they can be manipulated by the thumb with the shooters hand gripping the stock with only minor movement. The old style RUGER safety was the best location as it was out of the way on a stalk, easy to get to etc. A thumbhole stock requires that the shooter totally release the grip to manipulate the trigger on these actions.
Now some school of thoughts say not to use the safety when in firing position to which I say Wrongo! Many times a sniper (LE or Mil) will have to lay in wait for his shot or have to move his position once he has loaded. You need to use the safety (especially with some of the triggers Ive felt). THere are two types of shooters, those that have had accidental discharges and those that will have an accidental discharge. Anyway, I'll stick with a traditionaly configured stock which allows me to manipulate the safety as it was intended. Sure you got to remember to take it off or you look stupid but that is a training issue that can be handled.
USA - Friday, January 29, 1999 at 14:59:33 (ZULU)
Send him to the rack!!
USA - Friday, January 29, 1999 at 15:03:11 (ZULU)
Anyway, so I drop in and tighten the two screws that came with the stock. Different allen head size so I just guestimated the torque cause I couldn't use the torque wrench. I have taken it to the range and put approx 130 rds. thru and the accuracy is just as good a it was. No accuracy loss whatsoever that I can detect. I left the scope attached to action when I did this and the only change from the prior setup was one minute of elevation in the scope setting. It appears to be a good fit and the barrel floats from the lug forward. Plus, the shape of the stock is much, much more amenable to good position. Meaning that, when shooting prone, I can hold steadier and with way less tension and therefore shoot better. I thought the accuracy would suffer for sure but it hasn't.
The big struggle that I've been having all along is that I've never really been able to have rifle properly on target AND acheive a settled, stable overall body position. It would be one or the other. Always thought it was me just doing something wrong, which is true, but now, it seems that a change in stock type or design has had something to with it. I'm rattling on a bit here but this was a nice surprise in a couple of ways. Understand that I'm speaking about prone position only at this point and being still a newbie, I've much to learn.
So, gentleman, is there something I need to check or recheck on this " changing stocks in mid-stream "? It looks like a good thing, but I thought I'd throw it out for a look-see.
Jeff A. <email@example.com>
Smyrna, Ga, USA - Sunday, February 07, 1999 at 14:30:37 (ZULU)