September 2000
Just the sort of crap the Liberal left, million mom marchers want to see. This way they can point their fingers and shout, see thats what we are against. Rather than showing ourselves as intelligent, responsible, voting members of society, we get Kevin: OOps I mean Justin.
If the Justin's of the world are more concerned with the sexuality of some kid who wants to join the Scouts and learn some of the great things Justin did and then take those things the Scouts taught him out and apply them to making the world a better then maybe we should be having a million citizen march on DC and demand tolerence in our society. Something by the way is a constitutional right. Like The right to keep and bear arms or speak freely (no matter how ignorant the content). Hey Justin. It seems to me one of the lessons I learned in Scouts was to judge my fellow man/ woman for what they had to offer not what they do in their own home. Which if you read your own posting, you yourself suggest we have no right to comment on.
As a man who has 3 children who may or may not join Scouts I worry that they will encounter guys with skinned heads and swastikas on their arms. A circumstance that could easily become fact if prudent citizens and ADULTS don't police the "Private" organizations.
Oh, and let me take one last shot. Justin, If you are a long time reader of this site; why would you jump in here with a load of garbage to post, no coherent argument, and the audacity to tell the population of regulars to "F*@& off." And if you were a regular reader you would not have started off with "I am 19 and I......blah blah blah. HEY........! IS YOUR NAME KEVIN? C'MON YOU CAN TELL US ITS OK!!!!!
Stay in your playpen kid. When your old enough to drive that "71 Vette, give us a call.
WOW. Sorry gang that stuff has a way of flippin my scope covers.
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <marspirate@yahoo.com>
An educated place in America, NY to be specific, USA - Friday, September
01, 2000 at 00:18:22 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)
Learn the rules of engagement before you attempt to play. You'll live longer.
Playing Hard!
Mars
Mars <Marspirate@yahoo.com>
Yupstate, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:25:59 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.108.148)
I have been shooting the Federal 168 gr BTHP and have gotten great
groups at the 100 yds. I also was getting great groups at 600yds. I have
tried the Hornady 168 gr match also but did not like it as much. The groups
looked like I was shooting OO buck at 25 yds.
Craig <TACTICALTM@hotmail.com>
Rifle, CO, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:27:47 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.197.27)
I'm not "whimping" the bolt and I can't find anything about the longitudinal angle of the rifle at the time of extraction that makes a difference. To summarize, I'm flummoxed. This is the first "push-feeder" that I've ever owned (other than Garands and M1 carbines) and while a simple extractor replacement might do the job (to reiterate, the ejector is free, slick and strong) I'd like to understand what's amiss with the rifle.
Anyone have a clue?
Thanks Much,
Ken
Ken Smith <ken@ekrus.com>
Colorado Springs, CO, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:27:59
(ZULU) (your host address: 166.93.12.57)
Which Win 70 do you have? the Stealth, or the regular heavy barrel.
and which stock do you have?
Craig <TACTICALTM@hotmail.com>
Rifle, CO, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 00:32:26 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.197.27)
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:04:02 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.108.148)
There are 70-80 million gun owners in the US. How many are NRA and/or GOA? 4-5 million? How many of them that DON'T own "evil black assault rifles" or "evil sniper rifles" are going to get off their fat a$$es and VOTE in November?
I would hazard a guess that if 15-20 million gun owners would vote a one-issue vote (2nd amendment), we would have GWB in the WH.
I'm not saying he's just what we need but he sure beats the hell out of Algore. I don't even want to hear about Nader or the Libertarians.
Long holiday weekend coming up. Everybody stay safe - and have some "quality" time at the range.
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Mouth of the Rat, FL, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:07:44
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.194)
jp <vettepilot71@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:16:18 (ZULU) (your host address:
139.102.118.139)
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Mouth of the Rat, FL, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:16:30
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.194)
And I think that homosexuals in line units will be WONDERFUL for morale and recruitment. Ask anyone who has been in the field with a combat unit.
Now let's all hold hands and sing Kumbiah.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:19:37 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.59)
Thank you and you're welcome; all in one sentence. I will send a note to your e'mail.
I suspect that the big hullabullooo over the gays in the Scouts thing boils down to people being intolerant about other peoples intolerance. Not too much different than my ranting about your rant. Possibly it is a bit oversimplified putting that way huh?.
Oh well, I'ld say God bless America but I'm not so sure there is a God (whatever that is) and besides I don't want to aggrevate the others like me here.
Yikes this is tricky stuff. HA!
Play hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:22:42 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.108.148)
When were these things shipped? Have a batch lot of serial numbers? Damn!
Does that mean that if my 308, 7mm and 300 are shooting real nice tidy little groupies now, that I can shrink them down even more with a straight chamber?
Would have to be a damn sight better for me to break these muthers
down and have to go throught the whole process again. Not to mention muy
expensivo!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:25:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.43.139)
Kurt
Kurt <confederate123@yahoo.com>
columbus, ms, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:25:52 (ZULU) (your
host address: 204.155.48.30)
CDC yer killin me.
Justin,
No harm no foul kiddo.
Maybe playin too Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Gettin off My high horse in , NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000
at 01:26:24 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)
CDC yer killin me.
Justin,
No harm no foul kiddo.
Maybe playin too Hard!
Mars
And lets not forget these two lovelies.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
state, the right of the people to keep and bear
arms, shall not be infringed.
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Gettin off My high horse in , NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000
at 01:27:51 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.148)
Firefight. Fellow soldiers hit and bleeding all around you. You recover some and get them behind cover (or they've pulled your sorry ass out of the line of fire and are plugging the holes in your limbs and torso, sticking you with blood expander and maybe putting in trach lines or covering the sucking chest wound holes). You're trying to hold in your own guts while weak hand pulling the .45 out of the leg holster under your very bulky/hot body armor and TA-50 harness (because the AK round that went thru the mag well of your M4 screwed you big-time).
The medic/doc/PJ/corpsman helping plug you together (or you're trying to keep alive) you know happens to be an advocate of the "Alternate Life Style", and just before the shooting began was identified as HIV-positive before they could start admin out-processing (Don't ask, don't tell, don't harass, don't pursue). By the way, there's blood and body parts (let alone body fluids) all over everybody.
Survive the firefight. Die later of HIV complications. Did you infect the surgical staff during triage and emergency surgery, or your wife in the period after you were medically retired?
Thing that make you go hmmm.
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 01:51:58 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.28.214.146)
Anyhow, I called Remington today and was told that the triggers are "factory set and there's no need to adjust them," hence the new lack of adjustment screws. "That's just the way it is," they said. They didn't seem very concerned that a 6-pound creepy trigger on a precision/target rifle isn't conducive to precision/target shooting.
Surely _someone_ out there has even a little knowledge, insight and/or
interest in this information?
62-0x <paniolo@hawaii.rr.com>
Honolulu, HI, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 02:10:02 (ZULU) (your
host address: 64.65.75.124)
All good questions but ya can't walk through life worrying about what if. Thats called muddling through.
Definately what you suggest though..... things that are worth going hmmmm over.
Play Hard
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Not the City, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 02:10:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 147.205.108.148)
Sorry I got lost in my ethics. A bad mistake.
Regarding your concern I am not a real technical type but the idea that the Remington people say thats it and leave you no option seems counter productive and almost absurd.
I agree for a precision item there should be flexibility for the operator to tune up.
Play Hard!
Mars.
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 02:15:01 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.108.148)
Justin: welcome to the roaster dude. Consider it trial by fire ;-) BTW, the "a" in roaster is no typo. I was never an eagle scout, but I've heard that the only difference between the Army and Scouts was that the Scouts didn't have arty. HA! If we can get you shooting like you want, more power to you. I'd drop the soviet long range shotgun though. DOUBLE HA! Now for the tripple HA: for fast, agile, and 'glass, trade 'Vette in on a Shelby Cobra replica from LoneStar. Sorry, the last part was just for me.
Patron Dave: your fairy tale sounded too much like reality. I always wondered why they do the testing AND say don't ask. DUH. But you didn't start it off with a "Rock the good Ag", so I didn't whoop. You think with this cum-hander in chief soldiers question such things before taking care of wounded troops? Nah, there's paperwork to protect us!
Wild Bill: you're two behind. And what's this "a beer"? And don't eat the brownies!
62-0X: the reason I don't say anything on the topic is because I know nothing of it! This is bad info for those who purchase them new, I suppose it's like shooting after the ammo is banned. My reply will be the same: "well, I've got mine". No solace for the next generation though.
Mars: you might wanna pull a clit-ton and reword those first two darlings. They don't rap well. Don't let Rosie help you though, or we got dead air. Hey, have "a beer" and relax.
Geoff called, my CAR is shipping Tuesday (he doesn't want oops having
it lay around for ANY time, a move I wholeheartedly agree with!). He says
it weighs next to nothing, will do MOA with ease, and is butt ugly! The
description was a "really quick and lightweight little rifle". Needless
to say, I'm looking forward to it, something I've not said about a black
carbine for a number of years. I just don't have luck with black carbines
or 45 autos. So I'm gonna paint it ;-)
Brew Master Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
you talking to me? YOU talkin' to ME??, USA - Friday, September 01,
2000 at 02:54:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.190)
Bravo...
Crooked Chambers?... what Crooked Chambers... Winchester ain't got
no "Crooked Chambers"!!
That's strictly a Ilion problem... and not the first.
62-OX...
That's bad news about the Rem triggers... but it's no suprise. Remington
has been "sealing" things up for years, because of some law suites they
lost, and now, with the "partnership" with Stren fishing line (where Stren
pulls the strings), they are getting further and further out of touch with
their shooting public... much as Smith & Wession's non-shooting owners
in England, have.
But the 40-X's have beautifully adjustable triggers, or you can
get a Winchester M70... Win still remembers why people guy guns, and who
buys them... there is no sealer on the trigger at all... adjust away.
CDC...
your intolerance towards people that are intolerant of other's intolerance,
is very notable, and tolerable!
I vote for tolerance toward mud wrestling, lesbo, Girl Scouts.
"Sinister Dave"...
Yes... Hmmm! Take life one day at a time, and not too seriously!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 03:51:04 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Mark <markj12pct@aol.com>
Ohio, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:02:53 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.194.191)
Sinister Dave: WELL SAID!
-but I thought we carried the pistol to deal with the medics
(joke I'm not trying to Flame Medics or Corpsman [again])
Mike - 'Lito Hey B&L rule - I had mine almost 8 years and its the only piece of kit I haven't [yet] busted.
Bravo - I just finished 'Unintended Consequences' now why do I think of you?
Jerry - Sorry Tape still incomplete (not all my fault) my M203 hasn't come back from being repaired and that was part of the night/low light signature portion.
Definitely not going to Storm w/ any Western Canadian contingent
I drove over a Toyota Supra last month and the bills and insurance
increase are taking a bite of my earmarked coin. And the others don't want
to pay my way (how rude)
But four are planning (and saving for next year)
Maybe Mike you and James can get something cooked up for next spring
and I can extend the Northern Invasion (but bringing lotsa BEER)
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:30:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.148.142.27)
Mi amigo, I know how much you NUB your Win's............
BUT...........unfortunately, I also have heard drumbeats of the SAME kind coming from their encampment..........not to the same level, but still got their own prob's...........
Wonder if we need to start taking bore scopes, and hex wrenches to the sporting goods section and take a good look see before we buy??????
This news (on the triggers), will just about do em' in...........
now for the reciever to do a build, you got to add another "C" note
for a trigger!!!!
Never owned a WIN, guess it's high time..........
Two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:41:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.205.16)
You gents definitely need to see the latest rifle our custom gunsmith just built. A bolt action .338 Lapua Mag. With A-2 Stock, stainless fluted barrel...very sweet. Shoots great...(we'll take it to the range when you come over Chuck) The 'smith is picking up my spare M-70 Classic long action on sunday to build the same rifle for me in .300 Win Mag. (Just because the .300 is less expensive to shoot than the .338 LM at 60 or 70 dollars a box). All of the .338's being built for our store are on Remington actions. I picked up this Winchester action, So, In the interest of economics, I'm going to use it. As soon as I can get digi-pics I will post it to our website.
Later All.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Stillhotternhell, Florida, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 04:44:08
(ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.74.11)
jp <vettepilot71@yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 06:33:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
139.102.118.139)
I haven't run into the "pinned, non-adjustable" triggers yet (hope I never do), but I would suggest a very close re-examination.
To echo a previous post, the adjustment screws can appear to be lacking, due to the depth of the threaded holes that they sit in and the copious amounts of lawyer-mandated epoxy that they are buried under. Getting misinformation from Remington phone drones would not be considered newsworthy, either.
Liberal application of acetone (don't go to the chemical supply company, just ask your wife to borrow a bit of her fingernail polish remover) will dissolve the stuff, or at least soften it to the point that it can be removed with the point of a penknife, allowing you to adjust to your heart's content. When adjustment is complete, a dab of your wife's nail polish (you pick the color) will seal the screws and prevent the adjustments from shooting loose.
If the triggers are indeed now non-adjustable, order a 40X trigger (about $70.00 a year ago)......not only fully-adjustable, but the weight-of-pull adjustment screw is externally accessible. Funny that Remington sells this trigger but doesn't want you to adjust the stock trigger.
Standard Warning:
If you are not competent to adjust a trigger, let a good gunsmith
do it. His $30-40 fee is a lot cheaper than lawyer's fees, legal judgements,
funerals, etc.
See some of you at Storm.
Pete and ''lito.......Get the sheep OK?
Bruce N. Robinson <bnrobins@flash.net>
Los Lunas, NM, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 06:47:28 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.215.104.68)
Mustangs? Corvettes? Maybe I will get that .50 BMG.
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
BetterthanthepeoplesdemocaticrepublicofNY, Fl, USA - Friday, September
01, 2000 at 14:19:05 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.2.209.21)
On Rem 700 triggers, spend the money and get a
Jewell. They make a fine trigger, well worth the dough.
Chuck and Ken, Way late post and response, I have not spent any time
in Quantico, but comeJan. I will be spending
about 9 months there. After TBS, I willbe joining Chuck in the FLA
AO, in the loveley Pensacola area where I'll be yankin' & bankin'.
Semper Fi!
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 15:03:54 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.87)
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 15:22:22 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@Prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 16:00:30 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
I've decided to hunt elk this year here in the Colorado Rockies.
I'm going to use my tactical rifle. It's an original Steyr SSG69 fitted
with a Leupold M3LR scope with mil dot reticle. I have two questions to
ask.
1. Will the Nosler 180gr ballistic tips I have do the job for me?
2. Can someone give me some dimensions on the animal so I can work
up
the range dope.
Don't worry. No, I think I can shots here. Just want to have the
information in my log book. A 10th group SOTIC instructor told me once
that your log book can look like a local phone book as long as it contains
usefull information that will help you get the job done.
I tend to agree.
Thanks,
Don
Don <don@libertyoutfitters.com>
Florissant, Colorado, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 16:32:16
(ZULU) (your host address: 208.177.58.102)
100 -5 1/2 -5 3/4
200 -3 -3 1/4
300 0 0
400 3 1/2 3 3/4
500 7 1/2 8 1/4
600 12 13 1/4
700 18 18 3/4
800 24 25 1/4
900 31 33
1000 39 41 1/2
Note these are Book values for the M24 and all are cumulative MOA
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 16:38:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.148.140.27)
Bruce R...
The reason the sandard triggers aren't adjustable, is the design
begs to be mis-adjusted, and many "numrods" have gotten in trouble with
it (and then sued Remington).
Keep in mind that most gun owners aren't like the bumz on this site
(ol' "chainsaw" has already modified his "308 towed", and hasn't shot 30
rounds out of it yet)...
The average gun owner shouldn't even be allowed to remove the action
from the stock!! I'll get flack for that statment, but remember the guys
next to you at the range, before you start sending the incoming!!
The reason the 40-XB triggers ARE adjustable, is that by the time you're shooting well enough to be in that league, you know (hopefully) what the hell you're doing.
And yes, I got the sheepies... luv them ;)
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 17:06:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Mike, check your Tactical@tacticalintervention.com email ID!
Bob
Bob Hodge
<bhodge@primenet.com>
Out west, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 17:24:16 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.48.173.129)
Kevin: yes, this time you: All right, you've formally done it. The "unintended consequences" goes on the stack of reading material for when the snow is deep and cold. Then I'll know if that was a compliment or insult ;-) You make it here for the fun, I'll try my hand at Moosehead or Molsen, and lots of it! Now where did I put the rice and water?
Bruce: Seems the eco-swine have made lanolin filled non-acetone stuff! Worth checking before swabbing. The Big Jim chiles came in, but they're HOT(!!), Hatch has nothing to fear from our little garden! How the seeds changed, I dunno.
And congrats are due to my great state. HCI just turned out results
saying that we went from a "D" last year to a "D-" this year! Our majority
state senator went on record as saying "well, it proves we're doing something
right". Now for the "other" part. We have purty much agreed what would
happen with the blue pots, but what about these domestic enemies? I'm not
advocating a field trip to KA or anything, but that we ought to THINK about
the next step and what would be prudent, legal, and right. I'd wholy advocate
gunnies moving in and taking over (with voting) a sparsely populated state,
as a last bastion of greatness. After all, a well run state does NOT have
to bow to demands of the Fed!
Brew Master Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Friday, September
01, 2000 at 17:57:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
Guess what goes through a medic's head every time he/she has to scrape up some piece of garbage in a car wreck or shooting? Real medics are hard as nails, aggressive as hell and smart..I have had to wash in bleach more than once before entering the house...and gone without "conjugal privilege" due to meningitis / encephalitis exposure...talk about commitment!
Just as an FYI - AIDS is a pretty wimpy virus...you really gotta "ask" for it to get infected....the stats on an HIV contaminated accidental needle stick are something like 100 to 1 that you won't contract the disease. Wanna be scared, talk about HEP-B,C-D...that stuff jumps at you! Most AIDS patients are that way because they are IV drug users...sexual preference irrelevant.
Kevin ((joke I'm not trying to Flame Medics or Corpsman [again])
- what are you planning on doing with that "pistol to handle the medic"...pull
it on me and I just won't save your sorry ass (joke)...actually, I'd really
just kick you in the head and save you just so I could gloat later (still
jokin'...no offense, really
On the Boy Scouts....is "gay" a personal preference of a political party? I don't think anyone should be kept out of the scouts because of thier personal beliefs, but if you become a troop leader to teach the your beliefs to my children....we'll then, we have a problem.
just my opinion.
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 18:12:17 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.20.190.1)
2. Wasn't aimed at medics (I think the Combat Medic's Badge and the roll of Medal of Honor medics is testament to that).
3. I believe soldiers will immediately go to their buddy's aid in a firefight (I've been taught that since even before Day 1 as a Private).
4. If you don't serve in a combat arms unit, or as Jim Mitchell in a professional emergency medical profession where traumatic wounds may potentially cover you in others' gore, this is an academic exercise only. So, Henry K, get bent. It was MY fairy tale. Smut my ass.
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 20:44:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.28.214.146)
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 21:20:28 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
(In the way of gratuitous ego maintenance, I'd like to add that I'm neither a complete dope nor unfamiliar with firearms...it's just that of my near-100 rifles, I have only three that were made since 1960...this PSS being #3. I hadn't seen a disassembled 700 for years, and recall some sort of obvious white strip covering the trigger adjustment screws.)
My trigger is now set at 2.5 pounds, crisp with minimal overtravel, and passes the safety tests with flying colors.
Anyhow, I hope I haven't started some terrible false rumor about
Remington putting themselves over a barrel for their lawyers... Sorry again,
and thank you very much for your assistance.
0-0x <paniolo@hawaii.rr.com>
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 21:55:23 (ZULU)
(your host address: 64.65.75.81)
The main problem with personal beliefs, and personal lifesyle differences as I see it.
Is no matter how hard you try, you cannot separate the two on a consistent basis.
Problem I have with Homosexuals in the Scouts, is...........
As a Heterosexual male, common sense, tells people with common sense, that I don't get dressed, undressed, take co-ed showers with the opposite sex...........period.
Why?, because MY nature is to be attracted to THE opposite sex.
It's like puttin' booze in front of an alcoholic, and thinking they
will NOT drink it!, ain't gonna happen...............
So, tell me the difference?, how do you mix a person that is just as sexually aroused at looking at men, as I would be doing the opposite???????????( not talking Pedophelia here), so don't go there.)
Answer, YOU can't mix them together and expect good things to happen, it's not HUMAN nature.
You are asking for trouble, and believe me you WILL get it.
Off topic, but sorry had to add my .02's worth.
Color me Sick and tired of a group of people trying to get minority status, and special rights, that the rest of us DO NOT have.
And at the same time, forcing a Private group to cowtow to their wishes..................It's UN AMERICAN................
Tolerance used to mean disagreeing with another's perspective, or idea's. And agreeing to disagree.
Now in this world of PC, BS, Tolerance means you will agree and accept MY way off thinking, and MY way off life, or you are a Hater, and a BIGOT................
Long way from the America this stump puller came from...........
Flame away..............
Two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 22:37:24 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.192.27)
I just found a new source that will accept orders from non-FFl holders. price is 107.95 + shipping(add 3% for credit cards). E-mail me for phone number.
Also- I am shopping to upgrade my barrel & need a "turn key"(short
chambered, threaded & crowned)job. Money is tight(this is a recreational
rifle)- who do you guys recomend for best quality on cheap dinero? Thanks.
Bill Moore <lmalterna@aol.com>
Goodview, Va, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 22:41:57 (ZULU) (your
host address: 151.199.82.102)
Secondly from my understandings as a Canadian (who's Constitution isn't worth the paper it is printed on - "Guns are inherintly dangerous so the laws restricting them can encroach people rights" I could go on. The US 1st Amendment guarantees freedom of speech so let people speak.
Thirdly and most importantly if well all just sit back and be PC what happens... No one spoke out to the Nazi's (at least soon enough)
STAND UP AND BE COUNTED
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 23:04:58 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.148.139.78)
I can understand the interest in long range shootin' that's what
this site is all about.
Can understand somefolks interest in all the aspects, handloading,
spindrift, etc, but...
What's all the interest in Gay Boy Scouts?
The new Precision Shooter came in yesterday, and has a cool article
on shootin at REAL long range.
16' steel plates at one and 3/4th of a mile... and the Dude whacked
a Prairie Dog at that range to boot, measured with a laser, and witnessed!!.
Talk about tapered bases... 450 moa of taper... (Martin, are you
reading this??)...and about 6" high off the reciever for a clean sight
path over the barrel...
Course, I remnember the last time long range shootin' at PD's was
mentioned (it was Jerry Rice that was doing the shootin'), and a hell storm
broke out over the "Poor wittle Prairie Doggies"... you woulda thought
it was PETA country...
OK Bravo, get to work! Whack a PD at one klick to warm up ;))
'lito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Lookin' fot he mud wrestlin, lasbo, girl scout camp ;))... in politically
Correct, , USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 23:14:02 (ZULU) (your host
address: 24.191.22.47)
The military except for special ops use the M24 sws with 118 special
ball there is so 118LR out there but it is now the common round.As for
results the standard engagement range is only out to 800m but a well trained
shooter can engage out to and beyond 1000m these distance of the shot is
limited but the ballistics of the round and by the 10x power optics which
we use.
Recondo
Recondo <Jase007911@juno.com>
Ft Campbell, KY, USA - Friday, September 01, 2000 at 23:53:56 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.138.117.147)
HK: I'm sure that Col. Liwang appreciates your thoughtful instruction in the finer points of military courtesy.
Bravo: Not square dance. It was country rap. I'm sure I'll hear it again as background music in the waiting room to Hell.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 00:09:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.28)
One of these days I'm gonna make a pilgrimage to Prarrie Doggie country and see if I can nail some of those critters out past the 700 mark. Around here 300 yards is pretty easy game unless Dorthy is flying by in a tornado, 400 takes me a dope shot or two because I'm changing loads more often than I change underwear(you think I'm kidding!) I think I've nailed a 500 yard squirrel at the range before but I couldn't tell through the scope for certain and I think the range dude would have been awful pissed if I started hiking out to the 500 yard line when 200 is sometimes "iffy" if the range is busy that day(damn gomer pyle types). All I know is that at 500 yards even a 20x Leupold doesn't ID the target nearly as well as I'd like, at 100-200 yards I can tell what the things are thinking on 20x but certainly not at 500. When I get my next long range varmint gun, I'm either having the Loophole boosted or I'm gonna dump a bit more change for a Nightforce, I'll just cross my fingers for nice weather and pray I don't see miles-o-mirage.
Anyone know where I can get some arty to drop on the VarmintCong?
I figure some 85mm Mortar dropped on those parrie dog and squirrel towns
should be able to take them out when they duck into their tunnels.
B. Douglas(squirrel boy) <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Tossin squirrels like they were a wet sock in Cowpie, Ca, USA - Saturday,
September 02, 2000 at 00:32:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.162.46.195)
'Lito: you know I'm not that good of a shot. Heck, it was all I could do to put that 5 round group in a pack of winstons at 600. HA! I felt like a dolt until others missed the fleabags too. But that's the beauty of a gas gun, I can miss with great rapidity and rend the ground with STYLE! By the time I get to Storm, I'll be waiting until they run at a click before firing to keep those military guys in shape ;-)
CDC: You're a hoot. You think there's questions why I call Patron Dave such? And if those country guys can do a remake of the Eagles, why don't we hear Bob Dylan doing Marty Robins?
B. Douglas and the Varmint Cong: with all the boyscout stuff here
lately, just assure me that it's a crossbow bolt in your rear, not a fun
game of a**darts. HA! JOKE!! Man, you've got some AR's that are TRUE space
guns! If you shoot as good as they look, the fleabags are in TROUBLE!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Patron 'Lito sent all that blankity blank rain here! Solid week!, USA
- Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 01:48:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.241)
Gee Whiz guys whats wrong with a homosexual providing guidance and
leadership to a bunch of young boys/men.....in a tent....in the woods.....DUH?
Bill Rogers,I'm not believing that you could all but leave this alone
Next thing you know ya'll won't be able to work that second job as
sheep herders.
Bruce E. <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 03:13:20 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.199.188)
My solution for NAMBLA is to use everyone of the perverts as range targets. Only way to cure them.
Gays leading Scouts, goes against everything the good book stands for. I really need to move from Calif.
Speaking of which, I was channel surfing tonite and saw my ugly mug on an NRA Infomercial. That should seal any chances I ever had of making LT. LOL I can hear the Chief coughing up a nut anytime now "What does he mean no two cops in any PD could tell a legal semi auto from an illegal one?"
Well the foot feels pretty good so I will start getting in shape again tomorrow. Especially after seeing my fat face on TV
The Remington trigger is something I have never heard of. Are you certain it has pins and not screws in the holes?
Goy my Tactical Shooter today. They must hold them up at the Calif border. Mine is always a week after everyone elses. Nice plug on my slings by IAn. Thanks Ian.
Mike Haugen, not one but two Savages? Damm they will kick you out of SF for that kind of thing.
Bravo, nect year I promise to make the class an experience of a lifetime.
Dave L., Damm near made me want to cry. My other halfs Dad is in the hospital right now and should have a transfusion but the blood supply is so dangerous that they are going to watch him another day before taking the chance. They normally transfuse around a number 9 and he is at 8 and dropping. Dont ask me what the heck that means but he looks like crap. Been in since Monday. Nice guy Pray for him please.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 04:31:19 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.197.201)
Hush ya'll Bruce man, I'm tryin to get this idea of "tent Sex" amoung
consenting kiddies to catch on. Soon as I get my girl scouts you and ole
Dave can do what you want with them girlie men!
I know what Col. Dave wants the pistol for! It's for somebody to
hold on him so he won't jump out of one his planes over Iraq to get away
from this "man's" Army we got today!
Jim; your gettin close to the problem. "GAY" is a religion and enjoys
all the protection of a "Belief". AID's is just a small part of the "belief"...
it's kind of a badge of the believer. You got to believe in your illness
"Homosexuality" or it ain't no fun. After all, how can you prove you're
a true believer if you don't have AIDS? Kind of a "Boned again" religious
experience. If your famous otherwise and aren't GAY and you wind up getting
this disease, see what happens to you. You won't evens draw a 13th page
article in the Inquirer!
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 04:51:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Let me find out (wednesday) when the Doc is going to replace my knee parts and I'll know when to tell you to come shoot..that invite goes out to any other roosterfarians that want to come to sunny Panama City to shoot.
As a Structural Fire Fighter/EMT I have been puked on, bled on, crapped on, and been elbow deep in newborn baby spooge (sorry, just did not know how else to describe it...he he he he). You really don't think about it at the time... you just do what has to be done. Thank god Paramedics and EMT's are out there... Saved my sorry ass four months ago after a head on collision. But, I am glad I'm fighting wildfires now. No more playing in other people's body fluids.
Pray for the safety of all the guys and gals on the fireline out
west.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
gettingreadytorainlikehell, Fl, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000
at 05:34:53 (ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.73.71)
Any one have any good info. on an Elcan sight, 5.56, just got one in for my friend , Will be trying it on my AR!!..................
Thanks................,Biggunn.......
Biggunn <meghan@penn.com>
Mtn. Country, In the HCI low grade state of......., Penna., USA - Saturday,
September 02, 2000 at 06:41:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.29.119.94)
Just got in from Austria. Fricking baggage is lost betweeen here and Amsterdam.
Anyway, 2 US cop teams, Boise, ID and Opelaka, AL, took overall top 2 places, using guns built on Remington actions (Autauga being one of them.) WEGA, Vienna SWAT, was third.
More news later when I wake back up.
Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 07:15:15 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.115.78)
Jerry
Jerry
Rice <nor-cal@worldnet.att.net>
American Canyon, CA, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 13:26:34
(ZULU) (your host address: 12.72.4.108)
I would also like to hear about weapon mounted night vision experiences, such as using McMillan's or ITT's scopes.
Thanks,
Gonzo
[Yes, I know this is a re-post from several days past, but as the
topic of discussion had turned from guns to gays, I am asking for input
from those who have the true, requesite interest to be on this board.]
Gonzo <ktmp5@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 13:55:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.25.164.42)
Yep, I'd love to have a Chandler or (whatever is the current flavor)
fully tricked out and all the other neat gear but hey, I'm no longer in
the service , on a limited budget, and not quite in my prime. Enough of
my "moanin'& groaning"
OUT HERE
Will Adams <willadams@mindspring.com>
War Eagle !!, AL, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 15:57:16 (ZULU)
(your host address: 199.174.143.150)
If your outfit can afford them a GEN III Omni IV or V set of goggles (not a bi-ocular single tube) set is the ideal. Depth perception and IFF are optimum (which is why helicopter pilots use them to avoid "Controlled flight into terrain" or other solid obstacles).
Funny story: I was demonstrating black-out CQB (with AN/PVS-7 goggles) for my Marine Corps counterpart (may he rest in peace) with IR laser and spot light on M4, and we were tear-assing down a corridor in an apparatus in pitch-black when I ran full-speed head-on into a wall (A la Wile E. Coyote. Remember the depth perception I was talking about with a single tube bi-ocular?). He laughed so hard I thought he was going to wet himself. "Very impressive."
Once again with gadgetry, equipment ENHANCES your SOPs -- it doesn't
make up for weaknesses in your training, tactics, and procedures.
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 15:57:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.28.214.146)
So the missile defense project is a no-go once again. Not that I'm
wanting a raise or anything, but this cum-hander in cheap, the resident
of the federal states, decided ONCE AGAIN that we would all sleep better
with the victim mentality. Chuck, when we take control of a state 1) no
income tax to the fed, state tax only. 2) Canadians welcome for citizenship
3) a LARGE and EFFECTIVE state guard and militia (it'll be needed to ward
off the problems of the fed)!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
man, we GOTTA find a better place in the, USA - Saturday, September
02, 2000 at 16:08:52 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.180)
enough already. can't we all just get along.
I got kicked out of the boy scouts. I got caught eating a brownie.
bobbyb <bobbyb@hotmail.com>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 16:27:42 (ZULU) (your host address:
63.211.184.22)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 17:36:51 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.52)
Gettin' ready to head out for Storm Mountain tomorrow morning...
Now let's see chow, bullets, glass, chow, ... trgt data book, chow,
oh...there it is 'positive mental attitude'... okay ... got that...oh..
can't forget that rifle either...running shoes/shorts for the pft... oh
s**t... I need to stop eating right now... maybe lose enough ass between
now and mondy morning to be able to make the pft run in time...not to mention
the push-ups part of it...
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 17:51:00 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.233.164.10)
as far as the rondevous... Im purdy shure it's come as you are....
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Layin' off the, Captn Crunch Cereal, USA - Saturday, September 02,
2000 at 18:14:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)
Hey Marius,
You need any help in south Africa? If everyone there are like the
"Protection Specialists" I met in Wien, I'd love to live there!!
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Boydoimissosterreich, Fl, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:16:35
(ZULU) (your host address: 63.253.148.219)
Does any one have any experience with or have you handled the Spanish
or Greek CETME contract/clone of the HK 91/G-3? I'm looking at them in
SGN and Gun List, look like a good gun to start a decent rifle on.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Raininglikehell, Fl., USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:20:39
(ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.74.96)
As far as conditions go, they hardly get any better than they are now. Temperatures aren't any hotter than 85 max with a gentle breeze if any, the clouds are random and roll in for just long enough to vary the lighting over the terrain. About the only thing I could ask for is green hills instead of these dad-blasted browned out hills. Haha, good news is with the fires we've had recently, our memembers of the Varmint Cong stick out like big giant white fleas when they run through that blackened terra firma.
Now where'd I leave my heavy artilery?
B. Douglas (squirrel boy) <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:26:54 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.162.17.95)
Roberto Ordonez <robordon@earthlink.net>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 18:51:37 (ZULU) (your host address:
158.252.154.169)
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 20:22:59 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.233.164.10)
Since I forget to re-up my dues to PETA, you can feel free to mention
whackin' Prairie Doge, Woodies, and especially CROWS, with a rifle, any
time you want.
It beats the hell outa talkin about gay boy scouts ;(
I'll back you and "The Rice Man" all day long :))
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Lookin' for a brownie for dinner!... in CROW country, USA - Saturday,
September 02, 2000 at 20:32:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)
So now what do I torque the 2 reciever screws to and the hinged floor
plate screw?
John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, MO, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 22:12:03 (ZULU)
(your host address: 24.4.255.84)
As for "prairie cong" (great lable by the way) we have a S&!t load of them here and they are the farmers worst enemy. Cattle and horses with broken legs and so on. The local milk makin man encourages you to pop em when ya can.
Gives the PETA people a dilemma probably. If I'm hittin the ground hogs I'm being cruel. If I knowingly let those future hamburgers break their legs I'm cruel cause I let it happen and coulda done sumtin bout it. What a dillema. Well I pick keeping my next cook-out from suffering so I'm gonna load up my nail driver and go be mean to a woodchuck. HA! Which reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw a couple weeks ago; in big latters it said: "I LOVE ANIMALS" small letters underneath it said: "CAUSE THEY TASTE SO GOO!" Double HA!!
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Too many Crows here in , NY, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at
22:44:32 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.242)
Yup... that's glass bedding in the Winchester M70 Stealth. They used to use a thermal bedding compound some years bac, but the last two M70/HBV's I bought, had glass. The ofset is because the aluminum block isn't milled true. Just finished building an M24, and had to hog out the front of the aluminum block, and fill it with stainless glass bedding, to get it true. If it's two much over for you, you can clean it up, and re-bed it.
Hey Mars...
Where in NY do you live. I'll crawl a mile on broken glass to shoot
Crows with a rifle... "Black Rain" :))
I used to shoot them out the window with a Beeman "R1", in a little park across from me, and the park guy would just take them away.
Just got a new RWS 75, but I'm afraid to shoot one... they see a
dead Crow on the ground these days, and the guys in the white, full BIO-contamination
suits show up ;((.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 23:16:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
And why you guys bagging on my personal favorite group PETA? We're
just nice guys. We, People for the Eating of Tasty Animals are just another
culinary organization like the chef's society.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
where the black footed bubonic fleabag is endangered, USA - Saturday,
September 02, 2000 at 23:22:29 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.196)
Thanks man and hey you know the torq specs on the 3 screws, 2 on the reciever and one on the floorplate? All 65 inlbs?
Thanks
John McGrath <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, MO, USA - Saturday, September 02, 2000 at 23:30:47 (ZULU)
(your host address: 24.4.255.84)
65 inch pounds for the two on the ends... maybe half that for the center one. The purpose of the center one in to hold the front of the trigger guard, against the magazine box, and snug it up (same as the center screw on Rems)... so don't go too heavy on that puppy... just snug!
We had rain so heavy today, I-95 came to a stop for 20 minutes (with me in the middle of it)... with all this rain, I'll need a 28 ga skeet gun for the skeeters ;((
Bummer!!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 00:06:07 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 00:25:19 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.253.150.27)
Though I must say this, don't ask me, I don't make the rules I just
try in vain to follow them. Just some issues that should be checked, it
may end up solidifying your decision in the end when you finally make a
decision. Personally my brain just starts to go into a feed back loop and
smoke starts to shoot out my ears when I begin to think about all of this.
B. Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 00:50:44 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.162.44.240)
Bravo,
I can, without a doubt, comply with your state laws. Let me know
when, Governor. BTW how did Fla and S.C. do on the HCI report card?
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:00:23 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.253.150.27)
Out here
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.com>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:17:28 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.114.143)
Upstate and central located. West of Albany on I88 for an hour. Oneonta. A drinking town with a college problem.
For you Baseball fans its a 20 minute drive south of your mecca (aka Cooperstown).
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
On duty at the FD till 0800, been here since 0800 HA!, NY, USA - Sunday,
September 03, 2000 at 01:20:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.108.242)
1. I found a place that sells 165 Nosler Ballistic Tip ammo for
$12 a box. These rounds work for me as good as the rem. match 168's
I
payed $19 for. Anyone have input on the nosler's? Are Federal 168's
or 175's really the best? I'm having trouble finding them.
2. I asjusted my trigger as per Pablito's instructions, cept I could not budge the rear engagement screw. I worked around it and set the trigger at 2.5 lbs. Sealed the front screws, and it works great. Is my failure to adjust the engagement screw going to cause a problem?
3. I want a Leuopold Vari X III 8.5-25x50, but the discontinued 8.5-25x40 is now selling for $300 less. Is the 10mm difference worth the extra dough?
Thanks in advance for feedback.
Doug.
Doug Raymer <Doug@vernor.com>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 01:53:49 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.235.236.47)
Chuck: would it be imposing on others beliefs to tie the personal
tax rate mildly to quarterly rifle qualification scores a-la the Swiss?
State militia at it's finest!
Freedom for All Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, formerly known as the, USA - Sunday, September
03, 2000 at 01:54:34 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.200)
The current bid is over 5K...and says the reserve price is not met....
not a good deal in my book. Another question... Are you sure that Springfield
scope's guts will stand up to the shock of .50 recoil. I hear stories about
scopes getting their innards shaken out of alignment when mounted atop
of heavy recoiling rifles.
There are others out here that are way more experienced than I am
- but those are questions that cross my mind.
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 02:51:31 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.233.164.10)
The Doc is going to do reconstructive surgery on my right one, cut
through the bone below the tibial plateau and add bone to the leg to lenghten
it, get it straight, and level out the part that is crushed down. I had
an MRI done tue. and the cartilage looks like shattered window glass, so
there is knee replacement in my future too. But first I have to get the
reconstruction done and healed, so it will be spring before I get to go
to SMTC again. That's okay, because we have a chance to train together
a bunch before we go. And I want to get a AT-1 C-24 before I go. I will
know Wednesday all of the dope on the next surgery. Look at the class schedule
and see when the next SS I and SS II are. I would'nt mind going through
those classes again in prep for SS III. We could shoot for those dates.
I'm back in the Gym, I can do most leg work outs, but the pain is intense.
Not so bad I can't work through it though. I have to always remember that
if I'm going to be stupid, I have to be tough. But, I CANNOT run at all.
I tried on the treadmill yesterday...I almost go sucked through...looked
like something off of a Jetson's cartoon!!. I can ride a bike though, so
I'm doing cardio on a recumbent bike.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama City, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 03:47:56 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.73.192)
NO TAXES...go with what the constitution allows......leave my money to me to invest. So, If I'm too stupid to plan ahead for retirement, I DIE!! Plain and simple....Lets sell the concept that an Individual is responsible for himself, that the only thing an individual is "entitled" to is to breath the air on this planet and the god given rights you are born with. The rest you earn. Including citizenship and all the associated rights/responsibility that go with it.
AW, heck, It'll never catch on.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Darkandwet, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 04:17:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.73.192)
Those Portugeese receivers I'd like to play with though next to having an actual HK labeled receiver.
Neat thing about the Ca. gun ban(wait there's nothing neat about
it!) was that I saw a bunch of guns going through the gun shows and gun
shops that were what was left over legal stuff from 89. While much of the
HK line was banned in 89 under the RobertiFools gun ban(HK never renamed
their guns to become legal again like Colt and others did) the copys and
the newer models of HK rifles were still legal. I saw a lot of HK SR9 variants
come through along with the Portugeese clone(I'm not sure if it was called
the FMP or not), the Federal lead pipe jobbers, the Hesses, and the Special
Weapons guns I mentioned. While sad that the guns were being rushed in
to beat a bunch of 1/2 brained thought up legislation it was no less neat
to see what all was coming through and getting bought up in mass. Of all
the guns coming through the Portugeese HK91 clone was the one I saw the
least due to availability. It's no wonder I landed the AR10 deal when I
had it, I'll upgrade later. Only 308 semi I want now is an M1A but all
that's left for me to get is a Bastardized version if that is even allowed
anymore. Any of you folks in prarrie dog country want to adopt the squirrel
boy? I'm getting so where I can't take much more of this.
I linked the page with my squirrel slinging lighting rod from hell.
Sometimes I figure after hauling the lead pigeon up a hill, with all that
work Murphy has got to jump in and do something totally ironic like kill
me with a bolt of lighting. Funny thing is if that actually happened I
think I'd be proud to have the tale of those events on my tombstone for
all eternity.
B. "Mr. Squirrel" Douglas <uglygun@lightspeed.net>
Cowpie, Ca, USA - Sunday, Sept thar 03, 2000 at 04:49:08 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.162.23.194)
The PSG1 (and in my humble opinion most 7.62 semi snipers) is designed
for close range multiple target engagements. (FLAME, BRAVO, FLAME)
We've gone over this before and I still think sniping is the domain
of the bolt gun, and the PSG1 for paranoids in Black Nomex who think multiple
engements with single snipers is a logical or practical way to go.
The 6x Hensolt (sp) that is fixeve g its reciever is an example
of this thought process. It gives a relatively wide field of view that
allows for quicker tgt acq. In the CF we used to issue the 6x Kahles scope
on the Parker Hale C3. What this does is limit you effective engagement
and observation range. Now we have the Uerntl (sp again) 10x (same as USMC
w/ football dots)
FOOD FOR THOUGHT 1 PSG1 or 3 Jerry Rice Nighthawks DO THE MATH
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 07:19:20 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.148.140.186)
I was recently shooting long-range in the Tiadaghton State Forest
when I was approached by a forest ranger and informed that no one was allowed
to shoot targets in any State Forest in PA without their shooting area
first being inspected and OK'd by the district forester in charge of that
particular State forest. Safety concern was the reason she used.
I was then told the forester in charge of Tiadaghton would never
Ok my shooting area because it covered 900 yards, even though I was shooting
across a very steep hollow on a natural gas pipeline 30 yards wide. I was
told this regulation applied to camp owners with state lease camps also.
(Years ago, PA leased small parcels of state owned land to people to build
camps on. The leases were for 99 years. Many are expiring, and when the
lease expires, the state is not renewing, to the best of my knowledge,
and the camps must be removed. If the camp burns down prior to the lease
expiration, the lease holder may not rebuild.)Imagine going to deer camp
and not being permitted to shoot a few rounds!
Anyway, when I asked if I could HUNT the same area with the same
methods, I was told yes!! Needless to say, next time I show up, I will
have an orange hat on my head and my license on my back, "hunting coyotes".
bs <bs12345_2000@hotmail.com>
pa, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 10:56:02 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.174.96.53)
Andy and I went to the range yesterday to confirm zero and get in
some practice before the Rendezvous. . Andy's first shots were not even
on the paper. I figure he's left one full revolution on his elevation drum
again. So he gets on paper and he zero's his drums. Three shots later he's
an inch left and low. I figure he's pulling his shots and won't admit it.
So, ol' dad takes over and sure enough that rifle would put two in one
hole and then send the next three to the other side of the bullseye. Everything
was tight and the witness paint was in place so I new it had to be internal
to the scope. With no taper to the bases to get hits past 800 yards Andy
has had to "put some torque" to the elevation drum to get the come-ups
he required. I wonder if he could have damaged the scope in so doing.
On the ride home the mood was pretty blue as we tried to figure
what we were going to do between now and the Rendezvous. Andy's Mom noticed
his "hang dog" look and asked me what was wrong. When I told her she said,
"Well, then get him a new scope." I said, "Do you know what you're saying?"
She said, " This is important to him, spend the money." Now that's a SNIPER
MOM. I'll be on the phone to Premier Reticle first thing on Tuesday morning
(Badger/M3LR).
kmussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifon Spings, New York, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 11:12:25
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.26)
Mindful of all the recent discussion on this site regarding queers; perhaps if I’d phrased my 308/300 max range question as a scenario involving 2 male characters –both of the persuasion that chooses to make a playground of the human body’s primary sewer- I may have got a greater response :)!!
I’ve missed that opportunity; but perhaps if I explain the reason
for my question I may get the answer -and give you a mild insight into
firearms licensing iplaye UK:
As a member of UK Forces I experience only minor difficulties in gaining a license for rifles that I can show I have a ‘good reason’ to own.
Civilians are no different; but the licensing authority (the local police force) may make them jump through a few more hoops [NB. Pistols are totally outlawed for private ownership].
Several police forces set their own extra assessment hoops based on their own hidden anti-gun agendas (and whilst that’s technically illegal, it’s an expensive and protracted business for the man on the street to challenge the police force in court).
What may be considered a ‘good reason’ by one police force might
not cut it for another. Thus, your prospects for legal gun ownership may
be drastically affected according to which police area you live in.
If you have ANY criminal conviction you will not be allowed to own
firearms (personally, I have no problem with this particular aspect).
Thus, the reason for my question, an old school friend of mine (who I still talk to despite the fact that he’s a civvy :)) has applied for a license for both a 308 and a 300 Win Mag for deer and target shooting. His local police force have indicated to him that they will be happy to grant the 308 but mention of 300 Win Mag caused sharp intakes of breath all round!
From my perspective this is farcical. They have determined that he poses no threat to public safety if allowed to own and use a 308.
However a 300 would be far too dangerous for him to own!?!
I feel that this is a facile argument based on an anti’s fear of
the word ‘magnum’.
So, just how much further would a 300 Win Mag go than a 308 if, heaven
forbid, it were to be negligently discharged into the air (on the optimum
or -in this case- worst trajectory)?
It’s only going a few hundred fps faster at the muzzle than a 308
of the same bullet weight; logic tells me that the 300 will go further,
but I strongly doubt that it’s by very much.
Anyone know?
Thanks
Matt
Matt <mt@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 12:02:05 (ZULU) (your host address:
195.92.67.66)
All of the commentary on the HK cloned recievers is appreciated.
I really want to get one in my hands to see if they are worth a damn.
But thanks guys.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Stillgrayandwet, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 13:33:02 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.73.26)
Bravo: At the risk of starting another nightmare thread that will
not die, heed well Michael Sheehan's words concerning the Birchers. Research
carefully from independent sources. Start with "National Review". Their
motives are irrelavent.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 13:44:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.88)
1. A rifle round goes much further than most pepole think. According to the NRA Range Book a 180gr .308 @2610 fps can travel 4166 ft or 2.4 miles a 180gr .300 mag @2900fps can travel 4350 ft or 2.5 miles. MOST well designed ranges will own the impact area and control access to the impact area by signs, flags, fences etc.
2. During hunting season most places require everyone in the woods to wear blaze orange. I dont think we want to make it a rule that everyone must always wear blaze orange in the woods. I currently live next to one of the most popular hunting areas in WV and during rifle season it gets exciting sometimes.
When I go backpacking or on a picnic with my kids I should be free of worry of stray rounds coming off a varmit hunter.
Once upon a time I and another sniper were fishing/camping on the Arkansas river. We eased our boat up to a sandbar, set up camp for the night and were walking around gathering firewood. As we walked we heard the distinctive crack/thump of rifle rounds going past us. We dove for cover thinking we had stumbled on a guarded pot patch. As I lay unarmed behind a log (yes I was wishing that I was packing my CZ) we figured out that some asshole was across the river with his rifle popping shots at the sandbar. It was way too far and the wind was blowing in the wrong direction so we coudn't yell to get his attention. So we lay there, practiced the crack/thump technique and waited for the asshole to stop.
Responsible shooters will restrict thier shooting to designated ranges or places where they can observe the impact area such as on a prarie. If you want to assume that the impact area is safe you go right ahead, I won't. Murhpy's range law says that if it is down range and can be shot, it will be shot. With the anti-hunters and antigunners we must always practice safe shooting habits even if it means we are inconvienenced a little.
BS from PA. You were shooting next to an ABOVE GROUND natural gas pipeline? Dude...
Out here
gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 14:11:07 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.115.17)
"Now that's a SNIPER MOM."... that's a REAL mom!
Most just don't make the cut... :(
Right on, Andy's Mom!
Call Premier in the morning, and tell them your situation with the
match (Premier reads this site), and you will have it on Wed, or Thurs.
Premier is great about service.
Order a Badger one piece tapered base at the same time, or you won't
have enough elevation to strike the long targets. (been there, done that...
it sucks!).
Matt...
To say you didn't get an answer to your question because it wasn't phrased about "queers", shows a major lacking on your part... both in manors, and in knowledge of what this site is about... you probably didn't get an answer, because it's been answered about a dozen times, and it gets REAL old.
None the less... the 308 is good for about 5000 yards, the 300 Win, for about 6000 yards.
Now, do you really think that the British police are going to give
your friend a second permit because "YOU" saw this on our web-site... I
think NOT. The police simply don't want your friend to have his second
toy... and he'll have to live with it, or move.
You English are supposed to have fine manors (compared to us American
"Uncuth-nicks). If you post again, try using some.
Bravo...
Dude-ski, take well, and head advice given you by other Rosterfarians...
pass on them "Birch" puppies.
You might as well send your name to the FBI, and say... "Put me
on your Whacko list, and watch me (and my children) forever".
"Chainsaw"...
Give 'em hell Dude!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 14:31:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
As for target shooting, the .300 is much less affected by winds at 1,000 yards and beyond (1,100 to 1,200 meters). Mention the National Matches at Bisley, patriotic flag-waving, etc.
CDC, try www.specialoperations.com or www.ittnv.com
Dave Liwanag <dliwanag@mgfairfax.rr.com>
USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 14:41:27 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.28.214.146)
Hey here in the mountains of NY I wpould give a testicle for a 900meter range but the fact is between terrain and the local gun sissy population my twins will never be seperated. Finding a long D range that covers your butt for safety issues isn't as much fun as finding a hillside to pound the daylights outta but hey it's better than breakin rocks into soap powder in Leavenworth for an accidental sub MOA group in sombody's honey.
As for the Ranger, well is suspect he doesn't like it anymore than you do, but feeding his kids is based on doin what some technocrat tells him to.
I kinda like the question on the .308 vs the .300WM distance thing. Me, I own a .300wm and like it but I hear a lot of guys talking about the .308's. Details are always good to know.
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
A very anti gun college town in upstate, NY, USA - Sunday, September
03, 2000 at 14:44:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.99.161)
The definition of militia is pretty vague but the behavior isn't, nor will the establishments response to your affiliation.
I have seen it written here before and would like to re-emphasize that not too far away from being like the Latin states due south of here and we don't want to piss of the "Heffe"(Patron) or you'll find yer hut burnin down around ya. Of course this has all been metaphorically intended.........HA! and all that.
Brothers, the best most effective weapon I had with me as an operator was my brain and its ability to function. Look into your cerebral arsenal before you engage the hardware.
If its a felling of belonging you're looking for of a sense of mutual beleif and interest, then I suggest you stay in touch with these guys here. Share ideas, information and theory intelligently with like minded folk, go to the Storm Mountain shoot to commune with the Gods, but stay away from the gangs,OOPs I mean clubs, OOPs again, I mean the militias.
Of course this is MY opinion and hope yours (whatever it is) is as strong.
Playin Hard and keeping my guns and my wits about me!
Mars
OH, AND DID I MENTION; VOTE.....VOTE .....VOTE!!!!!!!!!!
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Livin like I want no attention from the G-MAN or the really over zealous
Troopers in , NY, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 15:12:42 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.99.161)
Calm yourself! Re-read my post, the queer reference was a joke (hence the little smiley face! :) Try decaf! (that's a little joke too! :))
Others, particularly Gooch;
Thanks -about 1/10 of a mile difference -not much is it?
Matt
PS
'lito, if you've had your decaf; it's 'manners' not 'manors' :)
All the best!
Matt
Matt <mt@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 15:20:24 (ZULU) (your host address:
195.92.67.66)
Kevin of the North: what flames? You said "most", which means you obviously were exluding the M-25, and "close range", which I'm assuming you mean 800 or so yards. Hey, we agree! ;-)
Kevin of the not quite that far North: Now THAT'S a woman! Other than her and CDC's lovely wife, I've not seen that aspect of femininity.
As for free-fire in national forests, we were in one once in North Texas. A great bunch of guys, one would set targets up along game trails, and it was kind of like IPSC, only with rifles. Well, along we go, and rounds start coming through the trees about head to chest height, luckily nobody hit on the first round, we all dropped by the next. Shots were fired into a hillside to let whoever know we were down there, to no avail. The group split, flanked, and surrounded the guy, who had just pulled his van off the dirt road and was firing "into the trees", not knowing there was a game trail (and us) behind them. His attitude was really bad, when told that he could have hit someone, his response was "yeah, well I didn't hit anyone, did I." So one of my amigos who legally had a M-11 put 32 rounds over him and his van in about 1.5 seconds. The guy hit the ground and tried to roll under the van. When the firing stopped, he asked "what the hell was that???" to which he got "well, I didn't hit you did I?". HA!
As for myself, I've got a 10 foot backstop bulldozed up, about 150 yards wide. That's the backstop on my no-vegitation 1000+ very flat range. And nothing but possibly grazing cows behind the backstop for miles. Safe and secure!
Oh, and Mars: my pistol purchases aren't called into the FBI, I'm
immune from that, and the waiting periods also. Cash and carry legally,
with no S/N's noted and such ;-)
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, formerly known as the, USA - Sunday, September
03, 2000 at 15:49:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.187)
Jesse
McBain <Mcbain@hotmail.com>
AZ, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 15:59:47 (ZULU) (your host
address: 216.67.96.95)
Do you think the heavier recoil will hurt the ACOG any? It is the mil issue TA01NSN.
Just a temp thing until I get the $700 for the leupold.
Gen BloodBath McGrath (LOL) <jkmcgrath@home.com>
Springfield, MO, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 16:33:36 (ZULU)
(your host address: 24.4.255.84)
See any of you hogs that are heading for storm....
Out and hittin' da road
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
storm mountain, bound...., USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 17:06:33
(ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.39)
Larue is at http://larue-targets.com/index.html. Hope this helps.
Pat T
Pat T <patidwelljr@juno.com>
Upland, Ca, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 17:21:17 (ZULU) (your
host address: 63.27.109.160)
Other than Westchester county and NYC there is no waiting period here either but darn it all we do have all the other crap. However depending on your local judge conceal carry (loaded) all the time and anywhere except at a few institutions and of course the Westchester co. and NYC places is a given. In plain english, NY isn't too bad yet regarding the pistolas. Rifles and shotguns are kind of a gimme as well.
Of course thats until the current first Lady(?) came along. If you're a NY'er Charles Schummer the liberal, totally no gun for the citizen Democrat from Long Island isn't the only one who wants your gun. Hillary and Chuck want to make NY the national leader in gun control standards and are going to use the NYC pattern of NO GUNS if we have our way about things policy platform to get it. Of course most people probably assume NYC is representitive of the rest of the state and if that were the case I would probably be all for tough stuff on guns. Fact is when you get north of Westchester its a lot like the boonies. Ya know the Catskills the Adirondaks etc.....
VOTE, say NO to HILLARY and help me keep my guns and the right to get another when I wear this one out.
Also, perhaps a good stock tip might be to find the company who is making barrels that is listed on the NASDAQ or wherever cause when the mandatory ballistics signature laws start finger printing your over the counter naildriver, the parts guy is gonna have a lot of business in replacements.
Welcome to the new world order folks. First the "Euro" starts to melt the individual sanctity of the European states and next the WTO has the USA cow-towing to the likes of some third world hole in the wall who doesn't like our policy on abortion .....or whatever. With this kind of crap being supported by the politicians WE (maybe not you or me) have elected, it should be no surprise your guns are yours only as long as people like Tipper Gore say they are. Remember the "V chip?" That was Tippers baby and fundamentally it meant that since you can't keep your kid from watching MTV we'll do it for you.
Ok. Suddenly the sexual orientation of my neighbor becomes one of the lesser evils in my day to day life. Of course thatis until he/ she is being dumb around my kids.
Problems, problems, problems, Ain't this a great game?
Playin for Keeps!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
No waiting period here in Northern, NY, USA - Sunday, September 03,
2000 at 17:34:36 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.88.23)
FN Special Police Rifle, .308 Win, Controlled round feed, 3 position safety, detachable 4 rnd box magazine, 26" heavy barrel with chrome plated bore, corrosion resistant finish, H-S Precision Pro-Series Stock
Sound a little like a Winchester/Browning hybrid (3 position safety
and controlled round feed; some Brownings use detachable 4 rnd box magazine,
most Winchesters dont have detachable mags)? Not sure if FN still owns
Winchester and Browning. Jerry's is asking $694.50 w/FFL. Would this be
an alternative to the beloved Rem. 700P? (It's in the same price range.)
Gerry <gerryc@teleport.com>
Portland, OR, USA - Sunday, September 03, 2000 at 18:18:27 (ZULU) (your
host address: 216.26.9.100)
The pipeline is buried under several feet of ground.
The sidehill into which I was shooting is almost vertical. This
is not a place people casually wander into - there is one road (dead end)
into the area. It was directly behind me. I was far enough down from the
ridgetop on my side to see to the bottom of the gorge I was shooting across.
I scanned the impact area with binoculars and spotting scope for 30 minutes
before I shot. I fired 6 rounds that morning. I hit what I aimed at, as
I demonstrated to the ranger with my spotting scope. She was very courteous,
professional, and sympathetic.
I provide this information, not to justify this type of shooting, but merely to try and respond to some comments and questions posted here.
My long range target shooting days are done. I guess I've taken the hint. Dumb, maybe. Risky, maybe. Murphy could have reared his ugly head. We all tempt fate in one way or another. I was lucky.
It was big fun while it lasted.
bs <bs12345_2000@hotmail.com>
pa, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 00:05:48 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.174.96.66)
Check out Jeff at http://www.targetshootingsupplies.com for your Sako TRG-22/42 needs as I know he is expecting a shipment soon and his prices are very reasonable.
Gonzo
Gonzo <ktmp5@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 00:12:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.25.164.42)
Chuck - Unfortunately, the Great State of Florida only managed to garner a "C-" on HCI's latest state report card. However, with all good, law abiding Floridians working real hard, I bet we could earn a good, solid "D" next year! Especially if we can beat these a$$hole liberals in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade counties who are attempting to violate state preemption laws with their new mandatory gun storage requirements. The state NRA affilate has already sued Dade County and Palm Beach is next.
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
mouthoftherat, FL, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 01:12:29 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.194.188)
Same goes here in the northern part of NY. Concealed carry permit gets the gun straight away......BUT when I want to buy a pistol I have to go to the Sheriffs office pay $3 for a "coupon" and then head for the dealers shop. Once I find the one I like I pay and leave the coupon with the dealer. He turns all the info about the gun in with the coupon. Then on the states list I go with the make, model and SN of my new weapon. Of course my permit never expires and as long as I am a responsble citizen my right to carry that weapon or any other legal one is left alone.
EXCEPT: Of course, I know of a guy whose ex-wife off handedly mention in a custody battle that she felt nervous around the poor schmuck she was ditchin and when the family court judge persued the statement she caught to what he was thinking and the next thing ya know this mook's gun permit is slapped with "restrictions" and the local deputy stops by to let him know that while he's movin out of the house he built he needs to be sure te weapons on his permit are unloaded, locked in the trunk and can't be used for any purpose other than "target practice." Of course he can appeal all this to the tune of about $100+/hour with his lawyer if he wants to. So now he nees to go find a Barrister who isn't some overeducated liberal anti gun activist to get his rights reinstated. So while yer watchin yer back for the politician who is gonna poke yer bung hole you ought to keep tabs of how disgrunteled the ole lady is gettin.
Wonderin what the hell is goin on.
Play hard...............or you'll get humped.
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Pistols ok in upstate, NY, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 01:13:54
(ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.90.4)
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
MouthOfTheRat, Florida, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 01:24:40
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.188)
Bravo,
I have a feeling you'll be paying alot less tax than I would if
your law on taxation works in the new state. How about an island? Somewhere
warm and tropical? Bikini clad women and shooting! Am I asking for too
much?
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Gladimnotinnynow, Fl, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 01:45:04
(ZULU) (your host address: 63.253.150.120)
Chuck: nope, not at all. I've found some great real estate that should do tremendously well, just a matter now of getting enough folks to go down there and run the current leaders out. And it's just a short 90 mile trip South from Florida ;-)
Moe: there are folks here that wouldn't put me in the "relatively sane" camp, but whaddaya expect from a household where the bird says "Polly wants a Lager" (JOKE!). As our great good friend Mister Two Shoes illustrates, we've just ditched yet another of our God given rights voluntarily. Amendment one states that we have "freedom of association". And I believe him QUITE correct when he says that I'm already on the "list" for being here. After all, would they watch a high-power long-range shooter more or the local duck hunter? I'm not joining anything before I know what it is completely, but I do have to admit that this is the first group I've found that has a hatred of the blue pots to rival my own. Reminds me of when I asked a role model of mine, the master pistolero, his thoughts on firearms confiscation. He told me "well, the government knows where I live, but I know where they live too. It works well that way". I would say that friend Two Shoes has wisdom beyond his years, but since I know how OLD he is.... HA!
Michael: no, you don't need to move to Utah, you need to help us
with the locals 90 miles south ;-)
UN hating Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Havana is supposed to be nice this time of year, USA - Monday, September
04, 2000 at 02:15:54 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.146)
Cory,
Let me know how everything's going. I keep missing your calls, I'll
try you tomorrow.
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Acubanowouldbegreatrightnow, Fl,, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000
at 02:43:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 63.253.149.225)
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 03:21:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
This post slightly out of sequence but I have not had the chance to check the roster for a number of days.
Beware of the Portuguese part kits. You can get them from Inter Ordnance of America (http://www.inter-ordnance.com/) but they have come from military rifles that were deemed to be past their useful service life. Hand selected or not (as they advertise), they are not parts that I would consider purchasing in order to put together a rifle that will operate in any safe manner for long.
Same thing goes for ANYTHING produced by Hesse Arms (http://www.hessearms.com). They have done a horrible job in reverse-engineering, especially the receivers. They are thicker than the HK, FMP and EBO (Greek) manufactured receivers simply because the steel used to make tham is A LOT softer than it should. You will get horrible harmonics problems (parts being rattled off) and most of all, you WILL find youself holding a timebomb because their receivers buckle because of the softer steel. Same thing goes for their barrels. They are producing barrels with the reverse internal fluting, NOT following ANY HK spec for its production. Their fluting does not allow the gases from the blow-back to properly float the cartridge and you will have massive ejection problems. When it comes to tolerances, hell, you will have to find a sharp corner to bang the forward end of the buttstock to slide it free from the receiver.
The only after-market receiver that is well worth mentioning for its true dimensional properties, construction and rigidity is the receiver manufactured from Special Weapons LLC (http://www.specialweaponsllc.com). Their steel appears to be cobalt steel (or at least has the hardness of cobalt steel; if you try to machine their receivers, you will go through a LOT of carbide tips). It is the most dimesionaly correct and correctly manufactured receiver outside a military arsenal. They also have part kits. Plus, they can get you in touch with an armourer out in scenic Arizona who can put a brand new barrel from Douglas.
If you can get your hands on an FMP (Portuguese) receiver, then get it. They are excellent quality made on original HK stamping machines. Plus, approximately 12 days ago, the importation of HK-91 style receivers has been banned. I can not find an FMP receiver for less than $900 to save my life. If you found one for $400, then GET IT.
Stay away and avoid any other receiver, especially the ones made from aluminium alloy, like the plague.
I would recommend getting the pre-ban (steel receiver), Greek manufactured SAR-8's, if you can find one that is. Half the price of an HK manufactured HK and they are as close to an HK as you will ever get. The company that produces those, EBO, is the same company that manufactures the G-3's for the Greek army. Original HK tooling ALL the way.
Send me an email if you need contact info for the armourer I use in Arizona.
Regards,
Ares
Ares <ares@ezo.net>
Canton, OH, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 07:21:04 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.93.225.251)
Please don't start a mass panic on this board like has happened on some others. This bill is currently tied up in the Senate Finance Committee and has a snowball's chance in hell of making it to the floor for a full vote.
This bill was supposedly passed into law a couple of weeks ago while the Congress wasn't even in session!!! - Duh.
If it ever makes it past the Senate, it still has to go before the House and then on to Klinton - who would probably sign it just to show what a great a$$h... er, socialist he is. Save the children, you know.
Everyone have a nice holiday and don't get your panties in a wad.
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
gettinreadytorainagain, Florida, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at
11:18:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.183)
am kommenden Sonntag den 10 September findet in der Survivalschule Jerome in Meinkot (Wolfsburg) das treffen der Teilnehmer und Interessenten statt. Wir werden die Fotos tauschen, den Caliber Artikel besprechen, fachsimpeln, usw.
Anmeldungen bitte bis Mittwoch 06.09. an mich.
Gruß
Torsten Erning
torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
germany - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 12:43:21 (ZULU) (your host
address: 62.224.19.94)
S-2099...
There are a lotta bills to worry about, but this isn't one of them...
this dweeb from Rhoad Island has one like this about every other week.
Watch Chuckie Shurmer, Caroline "Whatsherface" from Long Island,
and that bunch... they are far more skilled at putting up "harmlss" bills
that have loopholes (for their side), that can escalate quickly...
...like the Brady. All the flap was about the 5 day wait, and magazines,
but how many poor snooks can't own a gun, because they told their ol' lady
to "Piss off" one day, and got a restraining order against them... 15 YEARS
AGO!!
I don't know why the guys in New Yawk are so happy with their gun laws for... I left New Yawk, and a very lucrative business behind, because of the gun laws.
In many counties, you have to go before a Judge to explain why you want a coupon for an "aditional" pistol, even though you have a permit... the issuance is totally discressionary... they don't want to give it to you, you don't get it, PERIOD!... full carry is rare and very difficult to get in most parts of the state. Often permits are "restricted" at the whim of the police, or the judge.
Many counties require you to have a heavy safe (that can't be carried away) to get more than four handguns... yadda, yada, yadda...
I came to Connecticut (which was then, "GunSlut" heaven)... but two years of Gov Why?ker spoiled that... but we have "Must issue", all permits are full carry, and there are no restricted permist, and you can have as many as you can afford :)
But HCI thinks we're "A-" Ugh!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Embarassed to get an "A-" in the wrong place... in gun stupid Connecticut,
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 14:16:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
I have a few German lurkers that follow in my wake, and we will meet with the other shooters that attended my SSL 2000 Scharfschützen course. We´ll meet in Wolfsburg (VW town) on Sunday.
Hey staff, could we put a German flag on the site with a few words in German and my e mail address. I would then take care of their worries.
Maybe someone else could do the same in Spanish, French, Dutch (Stefan), even Canadian.
diversify
t
t <7.62@lasercon.de>
G3 land - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 14:54:16 (ZULU) (your host
address: 62.224.19.77)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 15:42:12 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.6)
I notice you’ve posted since my reply to your rather bizarre tirade against me.
I rather feel that you owe me an apology.
In my experience, those individuals who are unable to apologise when they are in error or unnecessarily rude are either:
Arrogant,
Stupid, or
Both the Above.
I’m sure that you are none of those.
Prove it.
Matt
Matt <mt@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 17:24:11 (ZULU) (your host address:
195.92.198.78)
Wow man. lighten up. I have read most every post here now for a long time and I didn't see anything in Lito's words that were grossly out of proportion with that of the general demeanor of the residing population. This is an obviously opinionated aggressive group of operators and if you thin skin can't take it perhaps you should reevaluate the location.
And while you are making assumptions about the meaning behind certain behavior, perhaps you should consider also that a real sign of insecurity is the feeling you have been attacked when you have not been, OOPS sorry thats paranoid not insecure. My bad. Oh and it has been MY experience that the surest sign of an amature is somone who demands an apology rather than rolling with the punch.
Say your sorry or I'm gonna tell my Mom.
HA HA HA...........!
If you can't run with big dogs stay on the porch.
lito,
Yer right it isn't a heaven for pistola holders here in NY at all. It could be worse though. Fact is, an hour south of me I couldn't get a hand gun at all unless it was less than a certain caliber and only for "target shooting purposes." Unless of course I could prove in court that my life was in danger because of my occupation. Truth be told here in Otsego county the judge will issue a concealed carry no restriction permit without question as long as you haven't got a record, so its not too bad right now. It too about 3 months for my permit to get the okie dokie and then you have to go to a day long pistol safety course (mandatory) within 6 months of the date of issue. As for coupons: the pistol clerk at the Sheriff's dept has them at her counter. You go in pay your $3 show your permit and out the door you go, happy as a two peckered dog.
Ok fellers Venus has been sittin on the deck in that thong she just bought (without a coupon) for about ten minutes; talk about a dangerous weapon.
Playin hard to get!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Otsego county is VERY lenient on gun permits compared to most of the
counties south of here in , NY, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 18:03:27
(ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.111.201)
Oh, Pablo: You're ugly too!
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 18:58:10 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.31)
Brother CDC: my good man, you're a total hoot. However, I concern
myself with your culinary feats. Let's not forget that Hatch (yeah, my
less than illustrious senator) co-sponsored the last gun control bill with
teddy "drown my girlfriend" kenedy. Orrin used to be quite the fighter,
now he only fights with the half of his face that doesn't vote. He's been
in office WAY too long, as has our governor Bennett. Neither of them are
content to go gently into that good night however. The only individual
from Utah that I would put any faith whatsoever in is representative Hansen,
and with him, only 50% of the time. He's the one that sponsored the bill
that would cut ALL aid to Panama if the canal went to anyones hands but
the non-existent Panamanian military.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the British Colonies, now the,
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 19:12:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.180.85.220)
He capitulated to the Dem's on the last proposal made, until HIS
office got about 20-50K worth of E Mails, and faxes, phone calls.
He had so many , he shut his lines OFF.................then, he
had a "CHANGE OF HEART", SO TO SPEAK.
I'm with Wild Bill on this one, and all others, we can't let our guard down for one second.
It's a fact, for every phone call they recieve, they figure there are 20K more people out there, that feel the same way, for every LETTER, hand written, they figure around 100,000 feel the same, but won't take the time to sit and write.( Heat, and continual, is ALL these guy's understand!, KEEP it ON.)
Action when uncalled for, is Far better than inaction when called for, IN the political field..............
Always Vigilant in Texas!!, "DON'T TREAD ON ME!".
two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 19:19:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.195.28)
Wild Bill, my good friend, you're right on with this one. If people wrote thier representatives to let them know "I know what was proposed in S2099, and I am quite embarassed and ashamed for your incompetence and anti-American values. You may rest assured that my full efforts will be underway to recall you should this even get out of committee" then they would think twice before even uttering that kind of rubbish. The recall election is proven effective. Good side: it's illegal. The Supreme court declared that one can not tax a right in the Jim Crow cases. Firearms ownership, to the surprise of many, is still a right, thus can not be taxed (just like voting). Besides, we need new material to write our representatives about. I'm sure they're getting tired of the same subjects we write about every week or so, right?
CDC: sounds like a job for MEK to me, but freon would be even better. Strips teflon.
Now anyone know if I can get a 1.25" or 1.5" rear sling swivel for
an AR standard stock?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Bravo again?, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 19:32:09 (ZULU) (your
host address: 209.180.85.220)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
HomeworkAndYardWorkDuringElkSeason, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000
at 20:17:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 134.50.232.95)
got archived on my question about the tompson/center encore. Has anyone shot one? love the idea of having a smokepole and centerfire with interchangeable barrels.
hey gooch which Arkansaw river were you hanging by?
I blew out two disks in my spine, does storm mountain have any courses that don't involve PT?
iiiiwanabe <mikelsam@ipa.net>
Siloam Springs, Ar, USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 20:32:52 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.128.140.11)
Matt...
"I notice you’ve posted since my reply to your rather bizarre tirade against me."
First, it wasn't a bizarre tirade... it was a responce to your tasteless
whine... and read the rules at the bottom of this page...
"... and remember... NO WHINING! during your visit"
Nothing worse than "gun guys" that whine...
...and PeteR, and Ken won't let me get mad any more ;)
(the Ther-a-pee is helping... she has great hooters:)
I wouldn't apologize to you on a bet... and here's why.
Your comment was in poor taste, rude and whining to those on this
site, because you didn't get an answer to your question... an answer that
is available in hundreds, if not thousands, of places.
Because you ask a question, doesn't mean you are "entitled" to an
answer... This is not a service bureau for guys to get free answers to
questions.
You didn't get an answer because nobody wanted to go look up something
like that... go buy a few basic reference books!
Also, remember that you are posting on a site that is 95% USA... that doesn't mean we own it (though it IS run out of a "mega surver" in "Sheep" country, USA). But it does mean that you have to be somewhat aware of other countries internal problems.
Each country has it's issues and social problems that plague some,
and please others.
The "Gay" issue has been a hot political issue here, which you SHOULD
know, unless you live in a cave.
There are law suits for gays to share the same foxhole and straight
military, and currently a suit going so adult men can have sex with little
boys who are ten years old... sure it's nuts, but that's our country.
I know we smoke cigarettes, and you guys smoke "fags", but in this country, no matter how you feel about them... "Queer" is now a word that is on par with "Nigger", "Kike", Chink" and a few other choice gems.
There is a tendancy for some to think of the site as a local "Virtual
pub" where you can drop in, and say what you want in private... forgetting
that there are over 2000 lurkers that hit this site every day.
Many are shooters that are interested, but don't have much to say...
others are shy (I know you're out there Carlos Santillio ;)...
But also amoung then are:
Winchester.
Remington.
Premier Reticals.
Leupold.
and many other gun makers/suppliers.
There are also the other side:
Handgun Control.
Center for Violence Policy
FBI.
ATF.
And a whole bunch of others.
So you, and your English attudes and slang, aren't too productive here... we have enough problems as Sniper/Tactical shooters, without being connected to the "Anti-Gay" issue... especially if some loonie does firearm violence to a gay.
"I rather feel that you owe me an apology."
Not a chance! You owe this site an apology, same as the guy that came in talking about "Wetbacks"!... and he had the stones to do it... how about you??... I don't think so!
"In my experience, those individuals who are unable to apologise when they are in error or unnecessarily rude are either:"
If you've been on this site more than a few weeks (go read the Archives, you will learn a lot)... you know that when I'm wrong, I'll appoligize in public, as will Bravo, CDC, UnDude, and most of the other bumz on this site... but if I don't feel I wrong... well...
"Arrogant, Stupid, or Both the Above."
"I’m sure that you are none of those."
Wrong again... I'm arrogant, dumb as a stick, and more...
Plus, as CDC said, I'm ugly too.
I SOOooo ugly, I couldn't get service in a cat house with a fistfull
of hundred dollar bills :(
You want to get answers, try some class, you guys over there, are 'posed to have it!
As Mars said... this can be a rough crowd... many are active, or retired military, or police shooters, many more are instructors... this is not the place to whine cuz your feelings are hurt.
It's not "Touchy-Feelie country"
Like Mars made out... You wanna play with "the guys", get some class, and some thick skin, or stay on the pourch!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Monday, September 04, 2000 at 22:02:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
I'm out.
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 00:24:47 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.253.149.2)
It doesn't hurt to call, write, email your duly elected leaders just to remind them that there are many more with your pov out there and November is just around the corner.
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
BocaRatone, FL, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 00:34:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.194.179)
Lay off 'lito I am a quiet lurker and respect his views/insights and he deserves NO bashing here!!.
You want some cheese with that whine!!!
Outta here!!
'lito you have my respect.
Brack <brackett@massed.net>
USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 01:03:45 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.6.69.184)
I agree with Gooch,(but) and I AM a Ranger, I work on the state forests, I fulfill the the role as "fire management officer", Called Forest Area Supervisor by my agency. But I still think "they" could set aside some land for designation as a range. I proposed user fees...like everyone else pays...still "no".
Free fire is never good anywhere, anytime, nohow, NEVER. A designated well marked safe range could be on mars (not ON YOU Mars, the planet) or on private or public lands. No difference.
bs in PA, uh, did you know that natural gas is flammable? just wondering.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
PC, FL, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 01:06:17 (ZULU) (your
host address: 158.252.74.22)
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 01:25:06 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
'Lito: well put amigo. You forgot Glock lurkers. And where do I get
some of that ther-a-pee?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
I post too much when I'm sick and home. Sorry, USA - Tuesday, September
05, 2000 at 01:34:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.218)
I'm still going to travel your way in the spring to see my daughter
we need to shoot together!
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama , Fl., USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 02:00:15 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.74.67)
Bravo...
Is your e-mail broke?... and it's TOOOoo late... you gotta be a
"new-rot-tic" GunSlut, to get "Ther-a pee"... and PeteR, and Ken, chipped
in to send me there... don't tell them he's a "she shrink", they'll want
their money back ;)
I just came up from finishing putting a 1/2 degree slope in a set of Martins best 30mm high Badger rings. I got invited to a 1800 yard shoot in two weeks, and I need 130 moa to go the distance, so I cut the inside of front ring down 30 thou, and then lapped both so they were co-axial... but man, what a bummer. I wouldn't want to do it for a living :(
1800 yards (just over a mile) is a big step for me... and most of the guys are shooting 30-378's, and I'm taking the "Black Mamba", and "The Harlot", so getting them little pills out there at 2600-2700 is a bit of a wait... almost 5 seconds to get there, so I think I'm gonna get a big dose of humility in two weeks... but I'll be one of the few guys that doesn't need a new barrel when I get home ;)
Need a nappie, I'm beat.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 02:12:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
we're supposed to get a range here in the Ozark nat'l. forest this year.if we're real lucky it will be 100 yds.
thank God it's dove season finally.
iiiiwanabe <mikelsam@ipa.net>
Siloam Springs, AR, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 02:31:36 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.128.140.16)
CDC, to get CLP out of the bore I use Sweets and JB Bore Compound. I soak with Sweets and scrub with JB. I then take the JB's out with Sweets. I repeat the cycle until nothing comes out. The use some standard Hoppes#9 to get the sweets out and plain gun oil to protect the bore.
On 6x42 scopes for sniping. They used to be more popular because they had better light transmission than the higher power scopes of the time. Now days the ten powers are so good that you do not need to drop down in power to a six. Obviously a six is short on magnification on longrange shooting, compared to a ten power. The US is ten and sixteen power for fixed power field sniping and Europe (because of what they only know why) split between six and ten power for sniping. The only reason for a six power is MOUT and for that reason some of the US guys have VariX3 M1 and M3 Tactical Scopes. Varibles are great for cities and the fixed rules in the field.
Bravo, your AR has 1.25" swivels front and rear. The problem is they are rough so you have trouble getting a 1.5" sling in them(nylon). That is why I suggest 1.25 for AR's.
Undude/Mike
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 04:33:06 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.197.186)
Patron 'Lito: shooting at a mile? URK? I can't imagine what kind of backing I would need at a mile to see where I was hitting. The Mamba and the Harlot look REALLY SWEET, I'm dying to hear how it goes! When you did the Badgers, was there any problem with having too little clearance to get the angle in the rings? Sounds like a lapping job from hell!
Patron Dave: Hey, I've not heard you go on about the Chandler rifle
yet. You got that already? From talking with Geoff Corn, he said something
about working with Norm for many years if I recall correctly. In any case,
I'd love to hear about your Chandler rifle. And once again, congrats on
Perry!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
all three Patrons, and late night too!, USA - Tuesday, September 05,
2000 at 04:55:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.216)
Well went shooting Saturday at the Eldorado Gun Club. It only goes
to a 100yds but the range is a hop and a skip from me. Anyway, I was burning
up some loads that were tested and found a load that I had not tested yet.
It was using the Nosler J4 168's. Previously, I had not found a powder
combination with this slug that actually shot well. Typically it shot 5
shots in a group of 3/4" or better.And I used the following powders: Varget,
H335, H380, BL-C-2, WW-748, and IMR 4064. None would group even after load
tuning in my rifle.
Well I discovered in a box of experimental loads 20 round loaded
with 40.0gr of H4895, 10 in Winchester brass the rest Federal.
I shot a 10 shot group that was less than 1/2"! A five shot group
that measured .362"! So, I am going to try and see if the Sierra SMK 168's
will do better!
Bad Karma
Bad Karma <jwhiteii56@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 05:28:17 (ZULU) (your host address:
206.170.184.227)
Thank you for your insightful and valuable briefing on US politics.
It is interesting that you feel you have nothing to apologise for.
In 2.5 years officer training (that’s officer as in ‘Army’) I have only
had to back-squad one individual; his major failing was an inability to
perceive –or admit- when he was in error.
Leaving aside the more puerile remarks of your sycophants; it is
also interesting to note their, and your, confusion that this is a ‘feelings’
issue. It clearly is not.
As I implied in my opening paragraph, the ability to perceive and
admit error is an essential element in the professional development of
both individuals and groups. Unless one recognises error, how can one correct
it -and drive on to achieve greater things?
(Don’t misunderstand me here, being ‘Gung-Ho’ has it place in the
operational / training environment. But there is a time and a place (for
example, when briefing -and subsequently leading- troops on a coup-de-main
op).)
Time to look in the mirror:
Do you not find it odd that my question received 2 or 3 helpful replies
from ‘regulars’ on the site to your one tirade?
Do you not think that a mature and professionally minded individual
would reflect and find it easy to put their hand up and say words to the
effect: “My reaction was unnecessarily over the top; I apologise.”
I do.
Moving on; you make extensive reference to the hidden lurkers on the site.
Read these 2 quotes from comments emailed to me privately, with reference
to our little discussion, by ‘lurkers’:
“I used to post on the DR, but no longer engage in that masochistic
behavior! I still lurk on the site because there often is a wealth of information
buried amongst the bullshit. For instance…”
“SC is worth staying with, if just for the knowledge that one can
glean, provided one can learn to ignore the assholes who seem to believe
that they control the site.”
I agree; it is a great shame that this site is marred by the propensity
of some individuals –who probably have much technical info that they could
use to help others -to launch bullying (I use the word in a derogatory
sense) verbal attacks from the safety of their keyboards.
Armchair Commandos? –Probably.
OUT
Matt
Matt <mt@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 11:31:48 (ZULU) (your host address:
195.92.198.73)
I'm telling the Doc to up the voltage a bit, just cuz she looks kinda
like Barb Wire, doesn't mean she won't follow directions. "In your best
interests, I raised the amperage too Mr Coburn" ;-)
Lighten up on Mr. Matt, the wild atmosphere generated here on The
Roaster from time to time might be a bit much for him.
+ He does ask sensible questions now and then......
Chao!
peteR
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
Big City, By-Gawd, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 12:53:00 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.158)
Your vocabulary is clearly expansive and is equaled only by your ability to articulate your non-point.
The Head Master would be proud of you.
The problem you are having here has little to do with anything other than your inability to recognize that as adults and professionals it is ok to not be in agreement on a wide range of issues; including the perceived tone of a fellow reader's/ writer's contributions.
Some advise, which is about as useful as wet toilet paper, but I don't mind sharing it. Stiffen up that British chin of yours and as I mentioned in a past posting roll with the punches. I realize that the English are historically, chronicly (superficially) trapped in the pleasantries of cordial conversation but we here in the breakaway republic you guys call the "colonies" are not so dainty.
Who cares if lito's response to you was "rude." If you don't like it make some choices: live with it, leave the site for a more friendly one, recognize that indeed there is some good info amoungst the BS and just lurk, or (and this is my preferrence) accept the fact that an apology would only come from you or lito or any other person here if they perceived they were wrong, not be cause anyone demanded it. No one here is the politness police. Suck it up, ignore the obvious quagmire you have waded into and stay with the site and its people. Give and take the worthwile stuff and be entertained by the crap.
And I gotta just say this real quick cause its ithcing my ass. 2.5 years in officer training carries as much water with me as a fishnet. Ten years as a non-comm in US Army SOG taught me a few things about what 2.5 or 4 years in officer training will do for me when that wanna-be hits my team. It means now I got some kid with a bunch of BS book smart ideas who needs to learn some real time realities about what gets my men out of a job with all their parts and brings them home to their kids or wife. Oh yeah and I also have to teach them how to correctly read a map and use weapons they only get to read about while at "the academy." But boy do those guys have some good manners! HA!!!!
Play Hard or stay home!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 13:02:11 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.113.75)
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 13:06:55 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
he would really enjoy this site the way it is now !
why dont you just e mail your personal problems to each other and keep the static off line please.
thank you
t
torsten <sickofit@lasercon.de>
g3land - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 13:07:01 (ZULU) (your host
address: 62.224.19.146)
Matt, er Steve, er, Comic Releif: I'll match your years in officers
training and up you a couple, with some experience to boot. 'Lito says
what he means. If you're a touch on the infantile side, don't let it bother
the rest of us. You're welcome, as is everyone, to post. And please remember,
it's quite easy to be misunderstood on the keyboard. Just ask Wild Bill
to give an example AGAIN. Or read the archives, where you'll find a BUNCH
of good stuff, including 308 versus 300 WM ballistics!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
I wasn't gonna post, but I was "provoked", USA - Tuesday, September
05, 2000 at 13:28:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.174)
I've slugged it out with half the guys on this site and would share my last canteen with any of them.
You're fine. Pablo's fine. If you met in person you'd be mates or
blokes or something.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 13:40:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.20)
I am still undecided between Leupold, Kowa 61X-series and US Optics spotting scopes. A Kowa 611 (angled housing) plus 25 LER eyepiece and extra waterproof cover for the eyepiece costs around 500 USD. A Leupold 25X50 costs roughly 460 USD, with mildots 599 USD from Premier. A Leupold 16-40X60 costs around 650 USD and with mildots 899 USD. A US Optics in basic attire costs something like 500 USD but with different options you can increase the price very much.
As I am a civilian/reservist who buys these out of pocket for non-serious work I would like to have some suggestions about the best scope and whether mil-dots really are needed or not in a spotting scope. Also weight and size is an issue as is eye-relief. This scope will be used also in the shooting range out to 300 meters. In the field it will be used out to 9-1000 meters.
Plus for mil-dots: Two persons ranging the same target decreases the risk of mistakes in measuring. Minuses for mil-dots: They are expensive, clutter the picture and in Leupolds you can not remove them. With US Optics you can replace another ocular (with extra cost of course ).
What do you think ? Is Leupold the only way to go or are US Optics or Kowa viable options ? How rugged and waterproof does a scope have to be ? Is USO spotting scope waterproof ?
How important do you feel is the zoom ocular ? With Leupold I can have it but that scope weights and is very expensive. If I have a fixed ocular like 25 LER, does one have problems with it when there is much mirage around ?
KISS method would say : Leupold 25X50 without mildots. Kowa 611 would have more flexibility in civilian life with an extra ocular. USO seems to be a good scope too, so do you have any preferences ? The 16-40X60 Leupold is out of my reach with mil-dots but I would like to have an opinion of the scope itself.
Lots of questions but probably some people have went trough the same thought process at one point of time. Tell the rest what you think is a good solution.
Hexa
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 13:41:40 (ZULU)
(your host address: 193.65.143.15)
Moe,
Did you get to the range in Palm Bay? Let me know if you did, and
how it was. Thanks for the info on the HCI report.
t,
Was machts du?
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 14:56:46 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
as to regulars running this site, you will find several guys who try and answer questions when they are asked. If you disagree or have something to add please do so. That is how we all learn. If you sit on your hands you add nothing.
Mars, not to pick on officers, but the difference between most Officers
and Sergeants is Officers refer to the troops as "The men" and Sergeants
refer to the men as "Us". Same thing goes in Police Work, Sergeants run
and fix what damage the new Officers do. LOL
Sorry Stan, I could not resist. No offense meant.
On the spotting scope thing. I have seen the US Optics and it has optics better than the 600 series Kowa, but like the KOwa it is too big for field use. Leupold rules for field use. Hopefully US Optics will come out with a smaller version. The one they have now is about 500.00 for a fixed power with mildots. It is light but not armored.
Something was asked about the use of a Springfield Scope on a 50 Cal. I have a fixed power Springfield on a Barrett MD99 and have shot over 500 rounds through it. Only problems so far is the lit reticle feature stopped working before the first round was fired. Optic quality is fair and not up to US Optics, Nightforce, BxL, IOR, SxB, or Leupold.
A FAVOR PLEASE: anyone with a good quality photo of a USMC Sniper
Scope that I can use please email me. The last ones I took for an article
came out with sun spots on them and I need to send the article out. The
scope is now 500 miles away, so it would be tough and costly to take more.
You will get credit for the photos.
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 15:58:36 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.21.138.85)
Matt,
There are more current and former military/LE on this site than
not. You will not impress anybody with your qualifications. You have to
earn respect here by being respectful and knowledgeable. There is significant
disagreement on most issues here, but gentlemen can agree to disagree and
discuss without insulting each other.
In Texas, if you have a concealed carry permit then the FFL just writes the number on the back of the yellow sheet and you get your gun. There are no phone calls or coupons required.
Does anybody know anything about Sako rifles? I removed my new Sako TRG-S from the stock and I don't know what the torque specs are for the action screws. The action screws are also flat head, does anybody know where to get hex head screws?
I start Citizen's Police Academy tonight. For those who don't know, it is a community relations program put on by local PD to tell what they do. It should be fun.
The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God Bless TX, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 16:51:01 (ZULU)
(your host address: 208.21.196.108)
Ooooooooooohhhhhhhh look! An "evil" bayo lug! Everyone ruuuuunnnnnn!
Gotta run. Will write later about Palm Bay - outstanding!!!
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 17:05:14 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.195.48)
I have now backed off. I remain on listening watch.
(However,I can't stop myself from pointing out that part of the first paragraph of my last post should have read:
'Having trained officers for the last 2.5 years'
I now have as many hairs on the palms of my hands as my Sergeant Majors!)
Bravo,
Good story, who won?
That, my boy, is manoeuvre warfare.
All the best
Matt
Matt <mt@mtwilks.fsnet.co.uk>
UK - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 17:30:30 (ZULU) (your host address:
195.92.198.73)
Matt,
That's Sergeants Major. Now I'll stop being a jerk.
Cory,
If Moe's right about the range, maybe we could make a trip to Brevard
County. You could visit the in-laws.
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 18:08:44 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
I would be disappointed if you went to lurk status. Fact is soldier; punches were delivered in all directions and to your credit you have weathered it and delivered some accurate heat as well. That manner of man has earned his presence and all should note it as such.
Indeed, I would bet that all the BS word-smithing that went on has left most with no idea what your original question was. I would be first to admit that. And perhaps due to all of the nancy-boy semantics over keyboard tone, there has quite possibly been a loss of useful information that could well have come from your question.
Stay and please feel free to bring an educated non-American perspective to the table. We all will be better for it. I don't know what yer drinkin but should we meet, the Guiness (my personal favorite) is on me.
Play hard and make this your home!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 18:55:26 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.108.242)
It seems to me that many new people ,just stumble on to the roster
and post a simply question.with their eyes on the NAME and YOUR E-MAIL
ADDRESS, boxes in the middle of the page, not knowing, they have just slid
across a few of the most important lines in the roster
Hot Tips and Cold Shot , which is a cryptic way of writing Frequently
ask questions /rifles/ammo/ scopes /and everything else. The dark red print
under it , may not be as helpful as it
was intended to be, normally this would be used in an ad , your
mileage may vary,,, only one at this price ,, not FDIC insured ,, your
results may be different.
Perhaps a start here arrow, flow chart , I don’t know. renaming it Frequently as Questions,would reduce keyboard work for all, perhaps reducing the confrontations ,that are slowly turning the inf. filled roster,into just another puss-pocket of humanity.
The thread format of other sites is better, to compress and organize
posts of like subjects,not having to drill through 30 posts to find
the answer or question, because time zones, work schedules, posting
times ,But I am sure there is more than meets the eye on format set up
and the like.
Just a few thoughts , with my limited grasp of the obvious , Trying
to help make a great site better.I will pile the sand bags high and pull
the manhole cover over the hole , back to lurking.
Hans K. <akuwert123@hotmail.com>
Californication, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 20:03:08 (ZULU)
(your host address: 130.191.26.133)
As far as the Lupita/Kowa/USO decision you have to make, here are my lilited spotting scope experience.
When I worked the Range on Camp Pendleton, most of the spotting scopes they had were Kowa. ( I think because they had a deal through Creedmore Sports) The optics were good and I was pleased with the light transmittance.
For Leupold, I own a couple of their scopes, which I love ( viva los MK4 M3) and have tinkered with one of there spotting scopes, I like their rifle scopes more than their spotters.
As far as USO, I have used one of their rifle scopes, though never one of their spotting scopes. If their spotting scopes are as good as their rifle scopes, spend the x-tra dough and go with the USO, they make some great glass.
Personally, I still love the good old trusty M49
As far as the mil-dot vs no mil-dot on the spotting scopes, if you want good, accurate, low-tech range estimation on your spotting scopes, go with the mil-dot plain and simple or get yourself a pair of binos with a mil-based range finding reticle
Later dudes
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 22:29:53 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.103)
Mars, being a fellow NY resident, have you heard any more on that assault weapons garbage that Pataki is trying to push through the Legislature? I am not having to bury my stuff!
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 22:34:21 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.103)
Chuck (and anyone else in Florida):
Drove up to Palm Bay Monday to visit the "Port Malabar Rifle &
Pistol Club" which I heard had some 100+ yard ranges. This place is far
and above anything I am aware of in south Florida. It's located maybe 45
minutes south of the Kennedy Space Center. It is a private, members &
guests club with about 1,500 members and NRA affiliated. The facility sits
on about 150 acres 10 minutes off of I-95 and adjacent to the local LE
gun range. They even have Miami LE making the trip to use the place (gotta
be a 3 hour drive).
They have facilities for highpower rifle, smallbore rifle, pistol, blackpowder, class 3, IPSC, trap, skeet, sporting clays and air rifles. I think the only thing they don't allow is .50BMG types. Their facility is also used for several regional shoots during the year.
Smallbore - 25, 50 and 100 yards.
Pistol - 25 and 50 yards.
Highpower - 25, 100, 200, 300 and 600 yards with cantilever targets.
Membership is $50 per year, NRA membership mandatory, one time initiation fee of $160.
This place is 2 hours from my home but it offers much more than any other outdoor range down here. I am planning on sending in my application shortly. I will still go to the "local" 100 yard range for convenience.
Website is www.net4u.net/gunclub/
Let me know if you have any questions.
Cory:
Briefly went to your website. Looks interesting enough to make me
go back for a better looksee.
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
it'ssunnykinda, FL, USA - Tuesday, September 05, 2000 at 23:12:59 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.200.199)
Several well known companies will be attending this event in CFB
Gagetown. I'm just curious if your's will be one of them.
Jeff Babineau <sales@targetshootingsupplies.com>
Canada - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 00:48:14 (ZULU) (your host
address: 142.177.96.18)
Chuck, that would be cool with me. We could shoot at gateway again and then travel to shoot with Moe the next day! Moe?
Bravo....warm beer? Ick. It's unamerican dude! My brother married a German girl and now he drinks warm german beer( shudder). And he moved to Zurich Switzerland! Warm beer..I'm going to hurl.
Chuck, we need to go shoot at Benning..soon! they have several lanes
that go to 1000 yards. Small groups are fun, but I want to shoot at varying
ranges. We could meet there and then go visit Ranger Joe's and U.S. Cav.
store afterwards!!!!!!!! ROAD TRIP!!!!!
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama City, Fl., USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 01:21:55 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.74.28)
Matt, You are to be congratulated!
But seriously, how do I know when I've gotten all the CLP out of
the bore?
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 01:55:54 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.72)
CDC;
If you can't tell if it's gone,how do you know it's a problem.I
put CLP on/in every gun I own for years until I read here that I shouldn't.I
quit and the guns still shoot better than I do.If you are shooting them
the stuff has got to go away eventually(just in time for that new barrel)
Bruce E <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 02:57:01 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.195.33)
or what the cut-off date for clorate primers is?
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 03:15:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 04:00:27 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Thanks,
Mike
Michael Rinn <Rinn33@aol.com>
Akron, Ohio, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 06:14:14 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.213.206)
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 06:29:21 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.192.208.6)
roberto ordonez <robordon@earthlink.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 06:30:30 (ZULU) (your host address:
149.101.1.102)
roberto ordonez <robordon@earthlink.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 06:34:25 (ZULU) (your host address:
149.101.1.102)
I was looking at Fulton's web site and they have a page that lists old ammo and if it is corrosive or not:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/non-corrosive.htm
I hope that helps.
Michael <mike1000@pacbell.net>
San Jose, CA, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 07:48:49 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.192.208.6)
I once lost a fine .375 H&H to British Kynock ammo... shot in
the morning (Hot, August himid day), and by the time I got home, the bore
was lost :((
What are you doing up this time in the morning... I gotta go (the
money thing), See ya' later.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 11:04:06 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Brother Bill: You're safe.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 12:10:16 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.1)
I lost your email and have more stuff for you. If you want it, email
me.
jeff waters <dog21@together.net>
VT, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 12:13:12 (ZULU) (your host
address: 204.60.171.10)
Nick,
Have you looked into the magnum or safari loads? The good thing
about .308 and .300 WinMag is the plethora of info on loads, trajectory,
etc. Also, the heavier safari loads tend to be too heavy to shoot at extended
ranges. Maybe a .378 or.460 Weatherby Mag, or look into the .338 Lapua.
You should be able to be able to build up a major manufacturer's long action
and find a decent selection of accessories for one of those calibers. Ask
Cory about the .338 Lapua, the store that he works in has one on the shelf.
Governor B,
A chemist? Wow yu musta be one of them real smart tipes. Shud I
stop drinkin rubbin alcahal? Sorry.
Cory,
My info book on calibers is a bit dated and has nothing on the Lapua,
maybe you could enlighten Nick and I about the weights, trajectory, power,
etc. TIA. A road trip? I'm up for one. I've never been to Benning, and
haven't shot at any distance for quite a while.
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 13:32:11 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
That's a whopping $1.65 (US dollars) for five .308 blanks.
I purchased the blanks from http://www.ctaz.com/~joemar/ for $25 + $8 shipping (minimum 100 pc order)...they are high quality and I'm just looking to make life easier.
I am making ZERO on this deal... I just don't have a use for one hundred blanks....
I'll have them with me for the train up and the rendezvous, so just
look for the guy with the 'Jersey' accent that answers to "Jim"....
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 18:16:36 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.20.190.1)
Bravo...a chemist? Cool dude, we could get some...nah, I won't say
it here. But I'm havin' evil thoughts!!!
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Grayallday, Fl, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 18:24:14 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.74.108)
If you had only 10 items to pack for a mission, what would it be in order of importance.
t
torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
germany - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 19:35:31 (ZULU) (your host
address: 193.159.89.228)
not enough intel...
what is the mission?
Bravo...why attack the hard armor when it's full of soft humans...c'mon, a truly devious chemist could come up with something (reach deep and show some of that American ingenuity)...think Ca++ disruption, organophosphates, deep lung irritants...
or combustion engine "additives"....or what we call "ConEd Med" here
in the tri-state area (drop a 14KV power line ...ouch)..
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 20:48:10 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.20.190.1)
Your exact question is impossible to answer. The ten things I might need on a mission would depend on the mission. Bye design this business is dynamic and what applies to todays job has no use on the next.
Additionally, the packing list would be adjusted based on the individual operator. Given operation X I will bring along items based on a lot of variables; such as my experience with similar ops, my personal needs regarding comfort, my weapon type my team size the geography, weather, availability of edibles (natural or other) and so on. This list grows exponentially the more you look at it.
Yours is a difficult question as it is. Now I would suggets that there are certainly 10 things we all would likely have in common if we were all together and dumped our rucks, right now in a surprise inspection.
Good question to get guys thinkin about their jump bags though. I know I suddenly started the mental inventory.
Play Hard!
But don't bring too much crap thats not edible or that you can't
shoot at a bad guy.
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
You are always on a mission when you live in , NY, USA - Wednesday,
September 06, 2000 at 20:48:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.90.36)
At the risk of getting tarred and feathered by these more active guys (I've been out of the field a decade now). Here's my list, figuring uniform and 782 gear provided.
1. Combat knife
2. Weapon system
3. Ammunition
4. Water
5. Socks
6. MRE
7. Comm
8. 1st Aid Kit
9. Poncho/liner
10. Pistol
Go ahead and flame me guys. I've got broad shoulders.
Guys,
Why are Lee presses so much less expensive than the others? Are
they alot poorer quality? I'm going to start reloading and their's seems
to be the best buy.
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 21:03:33 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Friend Torsten: I agree, can't do from what you put out. But a fun
mental exercise!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Wednesday, September
06, 2000 at 21:42:26 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God Bless TX, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 21:46:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 208.21.196.108)
Chuck...
The lee has a bad rep.
There are guys that use them, and think they're OK, but most users
are dissatisfied.
Lee's "warrentee" is you send it back, with 50% (of the "list" price"),
and they will replace it.
HA... 50% of list is what they sell it to dealers for, so it's broke,
and they're just selling you another one at their usual price... you're
just buying a new unit from them, on their "warrentee":((
Look at Dillon... they warrentee everything for ever... no questions, no money, no Nada... it broke, they replace it! Even if you bought it used, or found it in the dump... it's broke, send it to them, and they fix it, or replace it.
Also look at RCBS, and Redding... both companies that few, if any, will fault.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 21:51:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.90)
Hey Shooter,
I think your right but do ya mind this one modification?
Rifle
7 rounds of ammo
1 Ka Bar
1 condom................Hey ya never know and all work and no play
makes Mars a dull boy. Double HA!!!!!
Play Safe!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Can't find ten universally useful things in, NY, USA - Wednesday, September
06, 2000 at 22:08:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.90.36)
Rifle w/scope
Ammo
Water
More Ammo
More Water
Grenades, Frag/Incendiary...As many as I can carry.
C-4 w/time fuses
e-tool
knife
My wife
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
STILLRAINING!, Fl, USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 22:08:34
(ZULU) (your host address: 158.252.73.78)
Mars,
Good one.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 22:42:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.5)
1) RIFLE, EIS (bayonet, mags, cleaning kit) AND AMMO
2) Water
3) Food
4) Compass and Map
The next six depends upon your mission.
Can you give us some sort of Warning Order for brief specifics
hey they are supposedly NATO standard (except you Americans)
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Wednesday, September 06, 2000 at 23:27:16 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.148.134.58)
To Badger Ord. : Why not put a little instruction sheet in with the tapered bases telling the user two of the mounting screws need to be shortened? It would be helpful.
What's the current status of the .408 Cheytac? It was written up in the May issue of TS. I need a new project. (I think I can get a home equity loan.)
Ten things to take on a mission: Ten guys from 2-75th. ;-)
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 00:27:07
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.192.156)
HOOOOAAAHHHH!!!!!! to the 2/75th guys although if ya brought a couple a guys from my old outfit (Ranger Regimental HQ) you could leave behind two so they can take some home leave. HA! Course they wouldn't want to if they had a choice of goin on a job or checkin in with Mommy.
I'm thinkin that so far we have pretty much all hit some pretty common items. That enougth for ya Torsten?
Play Hard and hump yer own sh$T!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Still tryin to find ten things to bring from , NY, USA - Thursday,
September 07, 2000 at 00:53:18 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.90.36)
#1 Radio
#2 Map & compass
#3 Good sturdy knife
#4 water
#5 Weapon
#6 AMMO
#7 Frags & smokes
#8 sling rope
#9 Rescue gear pack ( strobe, mirror & flare )
#10 Food
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 01:28:27 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.28.201.143)
How much time does every one around here spend behind the trigger/working fieldcraft. Whats a good routine to get into? Whats your hardest skill to keep sharp?
I spend about 6 hours twice a month(I reload two nights a week). Most of that is off sand bags(not a rest) trying to tune loads and I feel like I need to build some new skills.
Eric
D5 <demise5@leading.net>
rainwindmorerain, andmaybeatornadoortwo, USA - Thursday, September
07, 2000 at 02:28:39 (ZULU) (your host address: 216.199.4.211)
A get together for a shoot sounds good to me. Timing will need to be worked on. I have arthroscopic surgery on the left knee in a couple weeks - hopefully that will be the end of it. Then a week up in New Hampster in October. Maybe by then I'll have a scope for my 700 so that I can actually use it! Of course, the Colt AR is always ready and available. Do either of you know the come ups for a Glock 27 for 600 yards? :D
Hey, I hear there's a range up in Jax with 600 yard lanes. Are you familiar with it?
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Ratone, FL, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 02:41:55 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.197.208)
Well, the 45 auto is coming along, seems you guys were right on with the "bad mag" diagnosis. I shot it today and yesterday (since I didn't feel like puking), 100 rounds without a hangup. Another 900, and I'll decide to keep it ;-)
Kevin and Andy: way to go there! Best of luck. Hopefully in a few
years, there will be a Bravo and son team too. It's my fondest hope. 'Course,
he'll shoot a '25 too when he's big enough.
Brew Master Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Enjoying a Bravo Brew, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 03:36:00
(ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.165)
Let us know when you get yours done, after we get done getting repaired like an old rifle, we need to make the trip and shoot, c'mon Bravo, come shoot with us. Everyone else too.
Chuck, 600 yards in Jax? do you know anything about it? How far is Benning from you? As soon as the doc gives me a surgery date, I want to go up to Benning and shoot there before I'm down for three months again. Lets get together and shoot before the next round under the knife.
We are still looking for interest in a shoot here in Florida This winter......Contact Chuck to let us know who wants play in the swamps here in Florida.
Anyone have one of the TGRT .300 win mag data books? Comments on
it?
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama , Fl., USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 04:04:38 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.73.86)
I had a lee press once. Tried to full length resize some 45-70 cases. It disintegrated on the third case.
Ed.
Ed <jorgensl@ix.netcom.com>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 04:20:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.187.95.170)
PS If you can copy and paste to me any writen info ---my url---
colum@hamadia.org.il
Michael
R. Columbus <colum@hamadia.org.il>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 04:37:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
212.116.161.38)
Let's all try to help Marius out and keep the personal differences personal and not public, i.e. thru e-mail. We may lose some valuable info thru the archives if he has to decipher all the b.s. as of late, and I'm no angel, I've actually been a cocksucker on many occasions, but let's as Gooch said stick to head shots, eh??!! I wanna read about the art of sniping and people who take plinking to the next level, I'm tired of this " yo mama " bullshit rhetoric.
Rinn:
If you can not find a problem with the fit of the rifle, like an action screw problem or a bedding fault, it could very well be the barrel. In my experience, usually when the gun does not shoot a consistent string, the first thing I look at is the crown. Sometimes after cutting the crown, a small burr is left behind, very small. When that comes up, I usually pour a lap and stroke the bugger out. I have had rifles that originally shot about 1" groups that shrunk under 1/4" after lapping the bore. No shit. But check everything else out before debating whether or not to have this done to your barrel, as there is a chance a rookie lap man will lap the bore too much and lose out on valuable barrel life. It doesn't take too much lappin' to end up at the point of no return, so that's the last resort ya hear!!
My two centavos
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
smouldering in, sd, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 04:50:02
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.197.176)
such a simple question, so many good answers !
I kept the intel to a minimum to provoke some broad thinking.
Runner up is Kevin with the "Ten guys from 2-75th", but the top award goes to Cory for number 10, "my wife" (does she know that she is the last item on your list?)
and none of you mentioned "my partner"
I was sitting over my 28kg ruck and was throwing out stuff left and right that I did not use on the last three FTX´s. Kept the first aid kit and my small sewing kit (live sucks with ripped open pants from crossing to many cattle fences in a hurry)
I do carry a compass !
Also a small tobaco tin with some sort of self adjusted "survival
set"
including the Condoms ! All of that is in my BDU´s anyway
so I guess you guys did´nt need to list that ether.
Now I am down to a manageble small pile of things that fit my pockets and the rest goes into my mission essentials patrol/water pack.
I´ll keep throwing stuff out as I get further into this feng-shui sniper art.
t
keep it coming
torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
g3land - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 07:55:39 (ZULU) (your host
address: 193.159.89.228)
Carlos used a 1 1/4", 8x Unertl scope, and it was put on a Unertl "bridge" mount, then mounted to the M2. The scope is not made anymore, but can be found (with difficulty) for around $500-$600 in good condition. If you want an original USMC marked one, it'll go for about $2500 to $3000.
The bridge mount is almost impossible to find, as they were very rare, even when Unertl was in business... but even the weapons experts won't notice it missing in a movie..
The 50 BMG was very effective at long range. It wasn't very accurate,
as the M2 machine gun wasn't a "match rifle", and issue ammo wasn't match
grade either... but if you keep at it, you are bound to hit something.
The bullet still had 2000 ft-pounds of energy at a mile, and was
sub-sonic. If an "Incendary" round was used, it was the equivilent of a
hand granade. At long range, the enemy couldn't hear the shot, and there
was no "sonic snap"... so the bullet just exploded, and the enemy had no
idea what it was, or where it came from.
As a anti personal weapon, it was ineffective, as hits were very
problematic... but the demoralizing effect of the exploding bullets "from
hell" was tremendious, and the enemy could be keep from water, or using
equipment, or even from going to take a dump.
The firing rate of the M2 is slow enough, that it is easy to single tap.
The use of the scoped 50 BMG was not original with Carlos... it goes back to the Korean war, where it was fairly common.
Get any good book on Carlos Hathcock, and you will get photos, and
more info on him.
SC...
A Simmons scope at $200 is OVER PRICED!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 11:17:24 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Jr.
Good seeing you again!! Thanks for taking Shawn on tour of your
shop, he really enjoyed it.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 11:58:34 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)
a .50 API has the same explosive power as a hand grenade ?
NOT !
I have shot .50 API´s at half full gas cans, even black powder cans that were behind half Inch plywood to get the composition to start and the "explosion" was not like a hand grenade. And we were closer than I would want to be to even a offencive grenade.
On the other hand, I don't know what your US hand grenades are like,but it was definitely not close to one of ours.
Also the API´s seem to be a little more accurate which I believe is due to the better quality of the steel core. Standard ball mild steel cores have big lathe marks, the AP core is nice and smooth and suggest a better QC and thus better weight tolerances.
t
torsten <7.62@lasercon.de>
we also shoot the 12.7x99, in, Germany - Thursday, September 07, 2000
at 12:06:00 (ZULU) (your host address: 193.159.89.201)
Would you accept... "Little hand-granade ;))
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 12:46:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 13:03:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.114.107)
Eric,
Do you know anything about a 600yd range in town? I appreciate the
offer for help on reloading. We need to get together and shoot.
'lito,
.308 is bolt, mostly. .45 ACP/.460 Rowland is automatic pistol (1911
type). Those are the only 2 calibers I'd be doing right now. TIA!
Everyone,
Thanks for all of the help with the reloading questions. Has anyone
ever used Georgia Arms reman ammo. They have reman .308 168gr Sierra Match
BTHP for $375.00 per 1000. Pretty good deal, if it shoots. If noone's tried
it I'll buy 100 and let everyone know how well it performs.
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Gotsoakedonthebuell, Fl, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 13:18:51
(ZULU) (your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Futhure and for you, Gootch and all. BIPOD USEAGE.
Were bipods used in Viet Nam , and if so what make. My read is that
a bipod issued with a sniper rifle ,Harris etc., is a fairly recent innovation.
Could be wrong and would appreciate anyone bringing me up to speed on its
history.
Recall that the Japanesse Arisaki had a bipod (rather primative
if memory serves) but can't think of any other that was wartime issue at
least till after the Viet Nam war.
Strikes me as the improvement, equipment wise i.e. Lazer range finders
, Art telescopes (I know -Leatherwood ART-is circa Viet Nam)) , tactical
scopes etc, are all fairly recent .
I am my area QRT sniper leader with the Israeli Border Police. I
am using a Styre SSG 7.62 and a Nimrod 6X scope (scope is crap, but out
to 300 meters head shots is a no brainer). Been asked to advise in this
movie being shot here. Don't want any gaffs in equipment usage so will
pick all you brains if I may. So watch for more om my threads.
Guys do appreciate any and all input..........MIKE
Michael R. Columbus <colum@hamadia.org.il>
Israel - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 13:49:36 (ZULU) (your host
address: 212.116.161.38)
I seem to find only superficial information on them and would like to know how they compare to the .300 Win Mag that I am shooting.
Also there is a buddy if mine at the FD who shoots and swears by his 270. We are entertaining a trip out to AZ for next year and he swears his 270 will be a better rifle for the long D shots and certainly for the game we expect to encounter. Say it ain't so! Now me not bein no ammo guru I opted not to load my mouth with explatives and defend my very useful and very satisfying .300WM. Out of curiosity alone I am wondering if he is correct or just a guy who like myself has found a rifle/ load he likes.
If this is over done please just direct me to the right string.
Whoops!!!! Gotta go. Venus just walked by with that still half asleep but feelin like she might be in the mood look in her eye. Gotta go sacrifice my body for team. DAMN!
Playin And hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 14:00:35 (ZULU)
(your host address: 147.205.108.226)
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 14:34:34 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
BILL
BILL <combat45@mi-mls.com>
Roseville, MI., USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 15:20:22 (ZULU)
(your host address: 206.253.244.120)
SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST
Venus is my significant human other, but I guess its always a good idea to make that clear. Thanks for the save. Oh and after she peaked at your response I convinced her that you were not suggesting she was anything other than the goddess I keep tellin her she is. 'course thats her over there in the corner growlin. HA!!!!! Good thing she loves me! Oh and did I mention that her bark is worse than her bite......... and boy do I like her bite........Grrrrrrr to you too honey! Double HA!!!!!!!!!
Anyway thanks for the specifics and for letting me know I'm not the crazy one. I don't have a ballistics thing loaded here on my pc yet so those kinds of questions elude me for now.
It'll be interesting in NOvember when we (that bud of mine and I) head up to the Adirondaks for a Bear hunt. He popped a female a couple years ago with it but she did not just lay down. His shot wasn't more than 100-150 yds and dead nuts on but she beat it on us and we ended up tracking for almost a full day. I was then and there automatically suspect of the caliber choice. I had an off the shelf Remington 30-06 and felt I would have dropped her exactly where she stood under the same conditions had I taken the shot. That rifle has gone by by and now I'm headed out with my .300wm. I expect that if I get get a shot offthere will be no tracking. With his bringing the 270 winchester I will be wearing comfortable shoes.
Play hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Venus is the better than most Babe (human) that sufers thru my insanity
here in, NY And I don't know why, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at
15:41:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.89.78)
also forgot to mention the lcation to your Mom thing. I'm about 1.5-2 hours from Syracuse. I'm South of it. I worked for Eastern Paramedics for 2 years after I got bounced from Duty. I worked the South Salina street district. It's your basic inner city, low to no income, education deficient, medics gotta wear flak jackets, tennement district. I loved it. But for $9.50/hr I had to move to greener pastures.
If there is somthin she needs and I can help let me know I don't mind a short trip to keep things good.
Playin Hard!
Mars.
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Not far fron Syracuse, Ny if she ever needs anything, USA - Thursday,
September 07, 2000 at 15:51:30 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.89.78)
Bill,
A version of the Mini-14 was purchased by the govt in limited quantities,
though not for "battle" purposes. I believe that the official name of the
weapon was AC556, and was selective fire. A few federal agencies used some,
also. I'd have to check my data at home to give you dates used. At 200yds
I doubt you'll shoot sub-mil groups, but "accuracy" is a broad term.
Bravo,
1911 mags. Do you have some recommendations based upon your recent
shooting?
Kush,
Good call on the land-nav stuff on your ten essentials. Cpt. DeCamp
would have my ass if he found out I neglected it.
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Stillrainingthinkingofbuildinganark, Fl, USA - Thursday, September
07, 2000 at 16:52:25 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Richard: I have been assured that there is no mechanical accuracy advantage to the longer barrelled AR's. However, I prefer a longer sight radius for applicable accuracy. Of course, velocity is a different matter, and will play into accuracy at range. I will know SIGNIFICANTLY more tomorrow or Monday when the custom CAR arrives. Ah, another Geoff rifle! Life is good!
Bill and Chuck: the mini, as stock, in my experience, is not capable
of 1 mil accuracy. About 4 MOA is a "good" shooter for these. Geoff also
works over minis to less than 1 MOA, with the issue barrel, but won't guarentee
them for less than 1.5 MOA. Tim at AWS does good work too, and he's also
a great guy. Tim's preference is to replace the stock barrel. In my experience
they're very reliable and not prone to breakage, but now you're basing
statistics off a small sampling. Now, please let the mini thread die, as
a personal favor to me. I've got a great good friend that gets an upset
tummy when I speak of them ;-)
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
wishing for Havana days too, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at
17:59:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
I think Pablito Pretty much answered your question but would like to add my 2 drackmas.
I have been loading since the mid fifties after departing the CORPS. I have tried just about every press available to the average puppy including progressive presses and some most have never heard of. In that 45+ years I have settled on two brands. RCBS (Rock Chucker) and Dillon. I am so impressed with Dillon that I have two 550B's. One is set up for small primers the other large. If I need volumns of ammo real quick I use the Dillons, If I need stuff to perform down range I use the RCBS. This is a single stage press but with Redding Dies my rifles will out perform my capabilities. You can buy cheaper but after several replacements you spend more. One more point, If you buy a progressive either remove the auto index sys. or buy one that is manual index. Trust me it will save you a lot of profanity and grey hair.
Sorry guys didn't mean for this to come off like a commercial but I'm sold on the products!
Vern
Vernon <VernLHamn@worldnet.att.net>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 18:17:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.242.58.99)
I disagree about the auto-indexing progressives... I have two Hornady "Lock-n-load"s, and two Dillon 1050's... and they rotate and index perfectly, and are idiot proof... my Dillon 550B is nice, but if I had it to do over again, I'd go for the 650.
Also, the progressives will load match grade ammo, if used with match grade dies... one of the Hornady's is set up for .308 with a Redding bushing neck die, a lyman "M" step die, a Forster "Ultra" seater, and a Redding taper die, and the ammo from it is just as accurate as from the single stage press... and I can do over 500 rounds an hour.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 18:46:23 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Andrew is a great guy and fun to drink with. There's never a dull moment, let's put it that way.
Are you shooting Norma Match in your rifles? The 168gr. loading works axceptionally well in them. I'm sure you know this already, as Andrew would have told you this.
Please, stick around this site and post some more, we need more Canucks on this board.
All the best,
Jeff
Jeff Babineau <sales@targetshootingsupplies.com>
Canada - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 18:57:00 (ZULU) (your host
address: 24.222.48.30)
Gerry
Gerry <gerryc@teleport.com>
Portland, Oregon, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 19:06:32 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.26.4.65)
Gerry
Gerry <gerryc@teleport.com>
Portland, Oregon, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 19:07:05 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.26.4.65)
Gerry
Gerry <gerryc@teleport.com>
Portland, Oregon, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 19:11:04 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.26.4.65)
For all practical purposes, the .270 Win and the '06 are absolutely identical in effectiveness until you start loading the 220+ grain bullets in the '06. A good comparison would be the 270 with 130 gr bullets and the '06 in 150 gr bullets. My 270 is pushing 3050 fps with a 130 gr Ballistic tip. The '06 with the 150 gr bullet is going at ~2900 fps with a 150 gr BT. The drop tables are -20.2" for the 270, -22.3" for the '06. The 150 gr .270 and 175 gr '06 also match up, as do the 170 gr .270 and the 220 gr '06. Delivered energy is also virtually the same.
There is a definite advantage to the 300 win mag, but again bullet placement is more important. Since you won't be shooting at game more than 350 yards off, the higher energy of the magnum round won't factor in. Basically, use whatever rifle you trust and can shoot accurately.
Reloading - Nothing beats the RCBS Master reloading kit, escpecially nor that they include a case trimmer. Everything you need at a good price except the dies. RCBS is as good as anyone else for reliability and service.
What to bring:
1. Rifle
2. Ammo
3. Water
4. Nav gear (map and compass, also a GPS if it doesn't count seperately.)
5. Knife
6. Food
7. First aid kit
8. Poncho/shelter half
9. Comm gear/signaling device
10. Either parashute cord, or socks, or cold weather gear, or a
spacesuit (If mission is on moon) or something else mission specific.
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold , Mn, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 19:11:14 (ZULU)
(your host address: 134.84.148.151)
Backpack
Ditty Bag (with all the gear not in the Backpack)
Weapons pack.
6 Great looking hookers.
1 Case of Bud.
I can go fight and know what I'm coming back to.
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 22:55:36 (ZULU) (your host address:
38.31.5.250)
Mars: If a .270 fails on a black bear at 150 yards, it was either an unusually durable bear or an inappropriate bullet. I'll take door number two, Monty. Nosler partitions have been doing it for me for the last ten years. I've never seen one fail.
BillR: Agree?
Ten things to bring: Has anyone answered binos? Gotta have 'em.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 23:06:06 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.45)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 23:22:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.30)
Aaaaawwwww geeezzzzeee, I knew someone was going to do that! Ya done gone and sprung the main ones that I havent tried on me. But your points are valid and well taken. However in my case I am reloading forteen different calibers, pistol & rifle. but lets just take five of the main rifle calibers. a 550 set up for those calibers will run about $ 610.00. For the 650 the outlay will be close to $1200.00, the 1050 base price is close to $1200.00 before goodies. See where I'm headed? Now $1200.00 for a press and then case feed with other goodies on top of that is to long an outlay for a close to retirement cop. But if you promise not to make it public knowledge I'll fess up and say that I want to try one of the 650s so bad I would almost give up my Yeller Lab!
Progressive was mentioned in my post but should have read "AUTO INDEXING". I have tried STAR, RCBS GREEN MACHINE, HORNADY(whatever it's called), RCBS PIGGY BACK, and RCBS AMMO CRAFTER. My problem was that they wanted to flip primers at the most inopertune time. Yea yea I know your about to say "well Dummy re-time the thing" right? My question is why fool with the piece of &^*% when with a manual indexing machine you simply back up clear the problem and your off to the races again? 500 rounds an hour? yup in pistol cartriges I can hit that and sometimes exceed it on my 550. Rifle? I can't make that but close to 350 to 400 is normal. Now to the ROCKCHUCKER. Thats one strong bear. You need 6mm br brass and only have a bunch of .308 or 06 laying around? No problem with the proper forming dies.
Yup there are some really good presses out there but factoring in the coin I still think the 550 and rockchucker are stand up equipment!
Now lets shoot, THEN blow the head off a draft and I'll kick back and wait for the next hit! Come on guys I know it's commin so dont take no mercy on me just cause I be a senior citizen.
Vern
Vern <VernLHamn@worldnet.att.net>
GAWD AWFULL HOT HOUSTON, TX, USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at
23:30:46 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.73.224.163)
You named some goodies. I have a RCBS Green machine that I got for pennies, cuz it was set up for 38 Sp Wadcutters, and they don't list parts for it anymore... Ha... there's a Guy at RCBS that absolutly loves those Greenies, and has the parts down in the basement... I converted it to .357 Mag, and adapted a Dillon case feeder to it, instead of those little tubes, and I love it.
I think the RCBS "piggy back", and "Ammo crafter" have been discontinued,
and they've brought out something else.
I think RCBS is searching for a spot in the market, and don't quite
know what it is... Blout is one of those "take-over" companies, that don't
listen very well. I had a Rockchucker at onetime, but sold it, and got
a C-H single stage... at 28 pounds, it's terrific!
It's too bad loading threads aren't carried here too often... you can't get good if you don't shoot a hell of a lot, and most of us can't shoot a hell of a lot, at factory prices.
Hank...
10 Things?... man, you got the best answer yet, and I'd even be
willing to drop the Backpack, Ditty Bag, and Weapons pack.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Thursday, September 07, 2000 at 23:55:40 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Vern: the Lock-n-Load (Hornady progressive) that I have now was bought about 18 months ago, for seems like $300 plus $15 S&H. No auto case feeding capacity, but it works well for me. So far, I've churned out about 4 or 5 cases of different ammo with no significant problems on this one, including the case of great ammo I took to the sniper class. If you want to clear a station, just pull the casing out. No problems.
CDC is right on with the bear ammo I suspect, I've never seen a 270
used, but a 280 yes. Just a 7mm-06, and I can't see the difference being
great between a 284 and a 277. DUH. Either way, I'll take President Roosevelts
"big medicine" if I'm hunting one. Just grew up with the 30-06. But I hunt
with a custom 30-40 for the lesser game, 'cause I love the Krag-Jorgensen
action, never found a slicker one!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
not feeling too good again, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 00:26:28
(ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.242)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 00:38:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.30)
Hey, today's roster has been great, lots of useful info and stuff!!
mrbullet:
It was a pleasure meeting your son, Shawn, the other jr (LOL). I hope I wasn't too confusing on the barrelmaking tour, a lot of it is second nature to me and I forget that not everyone makes barrels for a living, hahah.
Dudes:
We received a .308 Win tactical rifle back from the FBI academy, they took it thru about 5000 rds, in fact exactly 5000 rds. 168 gr Federal match was used throughout, as far as I know. By the looks of the throat, I'd say it had at least another 10000 rds left in her, I was impressed. What do they use for powder in the Federal 168 match .308's, anybody??? I guess the gun was still shooting 1/4 inch groups. Anyway, we are rebarreling it so they can send the rifle out in field, but we're gonna look the old barrel over. Will keep ya posted.
While yer at it, anyone know what powder Winchester uses for their factory 150 grain .308 Win round?? That shit eats throats, stay away from this stuff.
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 01:03:20 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.51)
It's too bad loading threads aren't carried here too often... you can't get good if you don't shoot a hell of a lot, and most of us can't shoot a hell of a lot, at factory prices.
I agree. As a hunter-turned-shooter, I am spending WAY too much on
factory match ammo. I am becoming more and more aware that I need to start
rolling my own. I know you guys all have your favorite setups and know
a lot more than I do about all this. What do you recommend as a good "starter"
setup? Price is a consideration, but I do realize that eventually these
things pay for themselves. I am looking to load for my .308, and also a
.45 pistol someday. The rifle is a 26" bbl Remington 700 P, the pistol
is a gov't. 1911.
Thanks fellas!
Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 01:22:06 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.105.22.108)
Comm is A #1 in my book, with out it, no evac, no air, no atry, no extract by CH-HUMVEE, NADA! But, land nav and map reading is an exellent skill to have.
As far as 1911 Magazine-gate, the Chip McCormick mags SUCK!!!!!! Wilson mags are are the best! I have never had a jam with a Wilson. (sorry Undude). Also my GI Colt mags that I "borrowed" from my Uncle Sam were pretty good also.
Semper Fidelis Brothers!
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 01:45:49 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.69)
I know many people have their pet setups, but I prefer the manual setup that gives me exacting perfection for each of my loads. I can load boatloads of ammo with limited time while ensuring perfect quality.
There are a number of reloading manufacturers, such as Dillion and Lee, and they do make some great gear, but I chose RCBS products for everything simply because when picking the perfect piece of gear for each function RCBS won out. The price was less important because as time passes and ammo is loaded I will forget what I paid. I even waited a few months to afford what I bought.
I use the RCBS case vibrator, Master Press (Not the Master Reloading Kit), digital scale and powder thrower (both actually made by PACT), manual case trimmer (with a drill attached), case prep center, various accessories such as the powder funnel, and Redding and RCBS dies and case holders.
I can load, literally, 1,000 rounds of handgun in a few nights sittings, or 200-400 rounds of the various rifle loads. I am never without ammo and I shoot quit a bit. I currently have about 2,000 rounds of various ammo in stock, and I don't really seem to spend that much time at it; just a few nights every now and then as I find components or need a relaxing break from life.
I know the progressive presses give great results, but I like the
very fine results from the manual process. I also get to perform quality
checks at each step in the process for 100% confidence in each round. Each
round is top quality and I spend about 20-50% of what commercial ammo goes
for.
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 01:54:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
38.31.9.123)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 02:07:00 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.39)
Newsmax.com is a damned fine source on what's really goin' on w/
that prick Clit-ton. Him and the u.n.
Everyone who gives a shit needs to read this.
This is from the site yesterday. Not sorry for the length.
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/9/6/151947
This is short, but will get you there. Relates to the one above.
http://www.newsmax.com/commentmax/articles/Steve_Farrell.shtml
Semper-Fi!!
Spud,
Out
Spud,
Dennis <usmcspud@mindspring.com>
merced, californicateya, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 02:14:36
(ZULU) (your host address: 199.174.218.218)
Yup, I included the wife for several reasons. One...I don't have
to bring the condom someone suggested. Two, I'm kinda skeered a 'splosives
so I kin git her ta carry em for me. And if I'm not sure of conditions
up ahead I can always send her up to see whats up...honey, is that a mall
I see up ahead? If she does'nt come back( aw too bad!) I don't go that
way. And If she does catch the tangos they will cap themselves after 15
minutes of HER nagging! And yeah she knows I'm going to take her with me...but
I bought her a Mini-30 so even if she turns on me she'd probably miss me
at 50 yards.
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama City, Fl., USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 02:24:46 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.74.30)
Send me some email on when your gonna shoot next.
Reload,paythesame,shoot3timesasmuch,understandwhatthatroundisdoing,makelittleholesalongwayout!
Eric
D5 <demise5@leading.net>
Jax, Fl., USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 03:44:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 216.199.4.158)
Rifleboy7
Ryan Neal <rifleboy7@aol.com>
High Point, NC, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 04:47:51 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.204.212)
Thanks
T Chase <tndchase@ak.net>
Kenai, Alaska, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 05:38:40 (ZULU)
(your host address: 209.165.151.238)
Federal has three "certified" powders for their match ammo (so they
can switch in case one is temporally out of stock).
The one most used is a "non-canister" 4064 equivelent.
Winchester (Olin Chemical) uses Ball, and as I recall, non-canister version of W748 for the .308.
I used to shoot a lotta ball powder, cuz it's so damn easy to throw
through a measure, but I've just about walked away from it now, and only
use it is a few calibres, like .22 Hornet, and .218 Bee.
For just about everything else, I've gone back to stick, even though
it's bit of a pain to measure.
Brian...
I'll tell you this, and several will probably second the motion.
DON'T get a starters kit... starters kits are like record albums,
you get one or two songs you love, and a lotta stuff you don't like.
Same with Starter kits... you may get a press you like, but the
powder measure is just so-so, and you either live with it and hate it,
or give it away (there's NO market for used loading equipment!!!!).
Get he equipment to do the job you want, the best way.
Example is the Hornady press I mentioned a few posts back... Hornady
progressive press, Redding bushing neck sizer, Lyman step die, Forster
Seater, Redding taper crimp... and if I use new brass, even the factory
couldn't tell it wasn't one of theirs.
So pick and choose.
But some quick notes and warnings:
Stay away from all "Lee" stuff.
Hornady presses are great, their dies suck BIG TIME!... the worst.
Dillon presses (and other stuff) is great, their dies are poor but
usable... but don't do the dies, if you can help it (but you must use their
"Backing" die if you get a 1050, or it won't work!).
C-H Presses are raw animals, and will size automobile crankshafts!!!
Forster and Redding dies are the best around... and the Redding
bushing dies are pure Pig heaven.
RCBS is quite good, but not in the major leagues anymore. Pass on
their "Competition dies"... Very pretty, not not competition quality.
The best powder measures are Redding, and Hornady a close second
(at half the price) and the RCBS is pretty good.
If you have or get a progressive... the Hornady measure with their little auto powder thingie (looks like a Jungle Gym, in heat!), is the best thing since the full auto kit for ther M1 carbine ;)
Bravo...
What CDC said! I clean my rifles, and Revolvers the same day (if
posible), but I clean my auto pistols once every winter, whether the need
it or not (They usually NEED IT BAD;)
Cory...
On takin' your wife... you're a piece of work, man... had me laughing
out loud.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Lookin for "Coffee" that doesn't have little green things floatin'
in it, in good ol' Constitution challanged, USA - Friday, September 08,
2000 at 11:15:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.249.180.35)
I read your explanation of why you'd take your wife along to my wife.
She laughed, said "that was pretty funny", then said if she was
married to you she'd kill you!
So my suggestions to you if your wife reads this are don't sleep
in the same room, keep the door locked, and for Gods sake don't fall asleep!
Also did I mention don't eat anything she cooks for you especially mushrooms!
Danny
Danny Reever <dreever@supernet.com>
Arendtsville, Pa, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 11:53:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 64.41.36.89)
'lito,
I will try some new neck turned Federal match brass in it and see
if I still have the same problem we talked about last fall with the run
out on about every 6th or 7th one.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 11:59:09 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)
Eric,
I'm thinking of going down to Ocala this weekend, if it ever stops
raining. There's a range in the Nat. Forest, but I don't know much else
about it.
Cory,
I'll let you know how the range in Ocala is.
Everyone,
Thanks for your reloading help. One question (after having information-overload
the last time). If you had to get one press to start from, and couldn't
afford to spend more than $650, what would you go with? Remember, all dies,
holders, etc. have to be included because I don't have a lick of gear.
Go with a set-up ie. Rock-Chucker kit. I'll be reloading .308 bolt and
.45 ACP/.460 Rowland (which take the same dies). TIA.
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 12:17:45 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Bravo: I think I may have figgered out why youz feel bad sometimes and then it gets worse. Guy you be puttin to much ice in the hooch. Didn't you ever see what water does to the pipe that carries it? Baaaaddd ju ju.
Ok I have taken up to much space and time from the folks thats got serious stuff to take care of so i'm going to make a tacticle regress to my hide and wait till next time.
Remember HESTON FOR PRESIDENT!!
Vern 10-8
Vern <VernLHamn@worldnet.att.net>
Hot by gawd Houston, TX, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 12:21:51
(ZULU) (your host address: 208.242.58.99)
In regards to your mags, get some oil, clp, whatever and some 600
grit sandpaper and wet sand the the rust and junk off your mags. Make sure
the follower slides through the mag body good, this is paramount.
The biggest problem that I find with mags for the 1911 style pistols
is then the slide feeds the next round, sometimes the stamped, sheet metal
followerwill shift and the rounds will be tilted slightly forward and will
strike the top lip of the mag well of the pistol. This is nothing a little
immediate action won't cure, but it still is a pain in the ass. That is
whi I like the Wilson mags, they have a solid plastic follower that does
not shift as much.
Glat to hear yur 1911 turned out good, mine is going in next!
That is my 2 cents
Semper Fi
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 12:54:12 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.172)
I have been toying with the idea of a Rem700 project. The idea is to buy a 700 VS-LH in 308 and upgrade it. VS because they do not make PSS in LH configuration.
I know I need: Badger scope base, Badger rings (are Max-50´s overkill for M3 LR ??), new hex steel bolts for attaching the action and triggerguard to the stock and a steel trigger guard. For the latter there are basically three options: HS Precision detachable mag kit (drop-in, besides I like det.mags.), Badger/Chandler Trigger Guard (definitely not a drop-in) and D.D. Ross triggerguard. I do not know whether D.D.Ross and Badger trigger guard are the same product or not. Does anyone know ? Is D.D. Ross a drop in or not ? How are they finished ? What is the cost approximately for DD Ross triggerguard ?
I know AT in Canada uses HS det mag, so it can not be that bad. Does anyone know how well it works ?
Where can one buy D.D. Ross products, from the web I could not find much ? I would prefer to buy the whole pile from one source and try to negotiate a decent deal. A minimum amount would seem to be something like 450 USD plus money for the gunsmith to bolt properly all together.
I think I would retain the original barrel and first let a gunsmith make a good crown to it and adjust the trigger properly. The stock would remain for the time being the regular VS stock.
With a M3 LR and mildots I would still stay below 2 kUSD. Is this a reasonable approach or should I just be happy with the regular triggerguard. The rifle will be used for non-critical shooting but it will be dragged trough bushes quite a lot and I would prefer to be able to use 65 lbs torque with the triggerguard.
Heikki
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 12:54:40 (ZULU) (your
host address: 193.65.143.15)
Kush,
Is there a way to disassemble these mags?
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 13:21:05 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
If you want a DBM go with the HS precision. If you are using a VS to start with you are getting an HS stock with the VS anyway.
Stay prepped for the start of the International League of RIflemen guys. I'm still working on it. Got contacts from Israel, Germany, Czech Republic etc. Just gotta get moved and I'll get the newsletter going if I still have the support I need.
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 13:57:18 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.115.25)
Breakfree/CLP is great on 1911's and I use a dab of Rig SS Lube on
the rails.
MIkeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 14:16:07 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.200.34)
BRAVO, DC8PLUMBER, or any of you m1a types
What is the proper stock height for using iron sights on the m1a? My stock is the adjustable wood stock from springfield and with the adjustment all the way down, I can use the iron sights but not without cramming the stock halfway throught my cheek bone and eyesocket. "Honey. why are your glasses always sitting crooked on your face?"
I have some walnut laying around and I think I could make a new adjustable piece for the stock and switch it out when going from iron to glass. i think.......maybe.......
Thanks!!!
Rick
GO BIG RED!.
Rick <Rick.waltemath@hhss.state.ne.us
>
right side of my face smashed in, splinters for eyebrows , USA - Friday,
September 08, 2000 at 14:50:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 164.119.13.25)
Yes the "Max 50" rings are overkill for the .308-M3-LR... but Ken
"Chainsaw" Hunter put them on his 308 Towed, and I have them on the new
M24 "Black Mamba"... they are only $10 or $15 more... life is short, ride
first class!!
I'll e-mail you some pictures of the setup.
The DD Ross is not drop in, and won't take magazines... it comes
"In the white", and must be fitted to the stock... put your money elswhere.
Like Pat, I keep the stock trigger guards on Rems... have had tons
of them, and they don't fail.
The H-S mag setup is first rate... I don't know if it will fit te existing H-S stock that comes with the VS... call H-S and ask (JR?? You know??)
Chuck...
I'll make up a list over the weekend, and e-mail it to you.... did you say that the .460 whatchamacallit uses the same dies as the .45 auto??, or just the same shellholder?
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 15:30:46 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
My question... has anyone come up with a progressive setup for .223 or .308 in which the powder measure delivers acceptable loadings of long stick powder. I have a dillon 550 and good dies.
I have heard a lot of knocking on the Lee stuff, but I have to tell you... the lee $15 powder measure has worked better than my RCBS or Dillon with IMR 4064 and Varget (still +/- .6 grains, which seems like too much deviation to me) . I also have bought lee cheapo dies to reload my dad's 30-30, 30-06 and 7mmMag hunting loads... I figure they're still better than factory and I'm not out the jing for a caliber where I cannot justify the Reddings at $60/die
I load my 26" .308 at 43.6 for IMR 4064 and 44 for varget (2680-2700
fps)... 44.6 of varget will blow primers, so + .6 just ain't cutting it.
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 15:41:48 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.20.190.1)
Thanks again--Semper Fi,
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 15:42:31 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
On the 1911 magazines, use what works, I recomended the shooting Stars because in 6 years of ipsc and idpa I have never had a jam from an 8 rounder yet, just my gun, your experiences may differ. I have also had good results with the wilson 10 round mags, but they are a bit large. One thing I have noticed, the better the gun runs the less the magazine makes a difference.
Thanks for the good info on appropriate rifles for precesion shooting,
will be building up a Tikka to play with and see where it goes from there.
Brian <pyronecro@email.com>
cola, SC, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 15:49:31 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.31.214.192)
Mr. Pablito's comments on reloading gear are right on target with my experience. Here is what I do and why:
Dillon RL550B - Provides accurate loads for my needs, rapid throughput. In fact, the loads are far more consistent and accurate than I can take full advantage of. Drawback: Powder thrower has some difficulty with throwing stick powder as consistently as ball powder. I believe Dillon offers a precision powder measure unit for the press, although I have no experience with it. Also, rapid caliber changeover (if that's important to you). Finally, Dillon customer service is OUTSTANDING.
Forster and Redding dies - The only rifle dies I will buy. The Redding bushing dies are outstanding. I have had good experience with RCBS dies, bad experience with Lee dies, and have not used any others (for rifle).
Pact digital scale - provides rapid checking of powder loads without the settling time involved in balance-beam scale. NOTE: It is a good idea to leave the digital scale plugged in at all times. The analog circuitry is temperature sensitive, and requires a significant warm up period (just my personal experience). However, I intend to buy a balance beam scale as a backup and use as a double-check for the Pact. The Pact, being electronic, will probably need a factory recalibration at some point. It's good to have a mechanical backup to know when things are going south. IMO
Pistol dies - I use Dillon carbide pistol dies. I'm not in competition, I just toss lead, so these dies work just fine for me.
Other stuff that I've found important are things like the Stoney Point chamber gauge, headspace gauges, 6"-8" digital calipers, deburring tools, etc., etc.. My sources for these things are Midway, Dillon, and Sinclair International. Occasionally I will find a gem or two at a show.
As I move towards some benchrest work, I intend to move to a single stage press and more precise powder throwers. I will probably work through Sinclair on these. They offer some really nice stuff, and many of the shooters at the club use Sinclair gear.
Finally, I've discovered one thing: buy cheap, buy twice. Spend the money on really good stuff and you will be satisfied for life. IMO
Although I am not in the same league as Pablito, I hope this helps.
Regards,
Steve
Steve <steve_duey@hp.com>
Denver, CO, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 15:50:07 (ZULU) (your
host address: 15.254.49.4)
The floorplate does not come off on the Gov mags, all you have to do is pull the follower out and you can de-gut the magazine and clean to your hearts content.
Mike, that's a surprise in the 8 rounders, my Wilson 8rd mags work
almost as goodm as my 7 rounders, go figure.
Another thing, what is the Maximum age you can be and still get
picked up by So.Cal L.E.?
Hekki,
No need for the Max50, unless you are going the route of the .50BMG
have the standard Maximized rings on my Mk4, they rule!.
As far as new trigger guards, while the others are truly beefy,
unless you want the detach mag, if you have the money to spend in the first
place, take it money and get the gun re-barreled and get the action trued
up, well worth the money. The Rem triggerguardds and floorplates are fine.
My factory floorplate is tourqued in at 65lbs with my McMillan A4 and no
problems.
That's all I have to say about that.
Later Dudes (and Undudes)
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 16:02:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.95)
As long as you have a good fiberglass bedding job, you should be OK unless the free-floated end swells so much that it touches the barrel, hence why the military uses fiberglass stocks today on almost all of their precision rifles.
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 16:10:10 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.95)
I bought a Lyman Expert kit with turret press when I started. The scale that came with it was horrible. There was too much friction at the balance point and I got some pressure problems. I learned how to compensate and I also bought a RCBS electronic scale. I highly recommend an electronic, it will save your eyes and patience. I would get a catalog from Natchez(http://www.natchezss.com) and Sinclair International (http://www.sinclairintl.com). Natchez has great prices and Sinclair carries all the benchrest type products.
1911 Magazines,
Someone once said that if a 1911 was meant to have an 8 round magazine,
John Browning would have made it to hold 8 rounds. I have had good success
with Wilson 8 rounders. My favorite magazine is a Les Baer 7 round. It
has a metal follower, not GI style but similar to Wilson. Shooting star
magazines are real close to worthless, I think $7 surplus mags are better.
Heikki,
The max 50 rings are probably overkill on a 308 with a M3LR. That
being said, I have max 50 rings on my 308 with a M3LR. They only cost $11
more from Premier and they add a touch of uniqueness. I figured that the
rifle weighed so much anyways, what is another 8 oz, 0.23 kg for you Europeans
:). I think Ken uses max 50's on his 308 Towed.
Gooch,
You still have support here.
A cold front finally came through Texas, it was a chilly 95 yesterday. It was 112 Monday.
G. Gordon Liddy's Bumper Sticker of the Month
End Clintonism. Vote Republican.
The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God Bless TX, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 16:31:57 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.21.196.108)
I re-read my post and I apologize for mis-spelling your name. Damn Fingers!
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 16:59:25 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.161)
O-tay, I lookin' for some solid field glasses to add to my
mounting pile -0- gear. I'm thinking of the IOR 10x40 Military
glasses and am also considering Steiner.
Thoughts, comments?
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 17:37:08 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.79)
Semper Fi,
Chuck
Oh, yeah.
I've had good luck with my Steiners.
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 17:50:11 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
You're a real comedian!!!!
Which bino's do you have(or have used)?
Later, funny guy
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 18:05:12 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.127)
Vern: the brew is good, and good for me, that can't be it. So head out to the Atchafalaya (SP?) off of the farmers loop and have some of the great fried gator tail for me. Almost makes me wanna battle Houston traffic again! Oh, and for the Hornady powder thrower station, it's GREAT!!! The last type I'll own. My RCBS powder thrower with pistol cylinder is in there, and stays there. Works WONDERFUL!! The RCBS and Hornady throwers are interchangable on this station, and it's the Glock of powdering systems. That's the best complement I could think of.
'Lito, I'm gonna disagree with this one thing. I think Lee dies are worse than Hornady. Oh, and the trick with the Hornady and RCBS powder measures is to get the pistol inserts. With the pistol insert in the RCBS, you can get a GREAT measure. With the Hornady, mine required fitting.
On the 45: my question wasn't if I should clean it or not, if it won't go 1000 rounds without cleaning, I don't want it. I was wondering about lubing it. I broke down and lubed the slide rails, bushing and link per CDC's remarks last night. I figured that if a 45 is gonna make my cut, it needs all the help it can get. Yesterday's 50 through the 45 was rather interesting. I shot "for accuracy" at 25 yards (30 paces), and put 40 into the head, 7 into the throat (less than 1" low from the head), and 1 into the chest. Yeah, probably missed 2, you see, the siloughet got tired of being shot midway through, (the wind wipped the target off), and I ran the remaining 6 at the "running man". For a stocker, it's pretty good. Mike, did I tell you I shot one of these good?
Tremendous strings guys, keep 'em up!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
where the humidity is about 1% of Houston, USA - Friday, September
08, 2000 at 18:14:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 19:00:08 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Filming a Viet Nam sniper sequence using scoped .50cal machine gun as sniper weopen "ala" --Gunney Hatchcock and others.
Script calls for a one shot kill 1000yds than taking out some apc's
.....Does first shot API and succeding shots API,tracer alternating sound
right? Pyro effect should be great.
Would the sniper use a gillie suite. Script calls for homemade Ghillies
- eerie looking burlap camoufage --plausible ???
Advising on film and want it as factual as possible.
Any and all comments and advice appreciate, via the thread or E-direct.............thanks
all........MIKE
Michael R. Columbus <colum@hamadia.org.il>
Israel - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 19:19:55 (ZULU) (your host address:
212.116.161.38)
You're a hoot, thanks for the info on the binos and the
humor, when I get to my training down south, we'll have to link
up and kill some brain cells!!! Last Q' on the binos, were they
the
issue type with the bigger objective, or were they the little
sawed off runt Steiners?
Know all about the girl watching, we used to harbor up with the Border Patrol guys and check out Blacks Beach (aka teh nudie beach) right off of Pendleton. It is then that you appreciate a fine pair of optics.
Talk to ya'
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 19:44:04 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.77)
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 20:20:01 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Continueing with my .50 cal machine gun sniper enquiries---
I don't have a copy of Gun/srgt Hatchcock's book.Informed that there are pictures of the .50 cal telescoped hmg......Would appreciate if someone could scane and Email me any pictures from this book and any others they may have of .50 hmg sniper (telescoped).
--------------THANKS.......MIKE
Michael R. Columbus <colum@hamadia.org.il>
Israel - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 20:42:07 (ZULU) (your host address:
212.116.161.38)
Well the business is officially over except custom fishing rods. Whew what a load off! Cleaned the last reel last night.
Now time to get serious. All this talk about reloading gave me an orgasm since I am going to place the order for the dies this weekend. 7 calibers. One question as usual. If I get the RCBS 2 die set, what do I do if I only want to neck size for the bolt guns? I talked to a bud and he says that he just doesn't take the FL die down all the way. This seems a little hinky to me. I still have the option of the Redding deluxe 3 die set. Understand that these are only Rem 700's not up to bench rest standards and I just want the best for the value.
ASTA LA PASTA, BOLT OUT!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 21:23:40 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.47.214)
My first die set and press were Lee's. I still use them. They work fine for me. I also have a number of their 6 cavity bullet moulds that have served me well. I won't throw away my Lee gear just because someone on this board said that Lee products were lower than whale shit.
Bottom line. You're going to have to go out and experiment a little
to see what you like best. If you have a couple of shooting friends with
gear from different manufacturers, then ask them if you can try their equipment
out. You might get a little better insight as to what you like and what
you don't like about each brand/product.
Jeff Babineau <sales@targetshootingsupplies.com>
Canada - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 21:45:33 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.222.48.30)
Bolt: don't feel like you have to buy a set. I quit purchasing sets.
All dies are available individually, and there isn't enough of a savings
to warrant getting anything you don't want. The backing out of a FL die
to size necks is common. Better is the Redding collet die ;-) As for brands
of dies, you really won't know what folks are talking about until you try
it. My RCBS comp dies in 308 I thought were the bees knees, until Patron
'Lito told me I wouldn't be sorry for getting the Reddings. So I did. And
I've got some RCBS dies for sale! Personally, I'm stuck on these Redding
/ Lyman combos for the rifles, and RCBS / Hornady combos for pistols. You
make the call.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
half hour until shooting time, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at
22:03:23 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
As far as I'm concerned, most of the mainsteam well established companies are making good quality products, with the warranty to back them up. I could care less who makes the product, if you aren't satisfied with the performance then send it back. It's that simple.
I truly enjoy my Dillon, Lee turret, Rockchucker and Hornady Lock-N-Load
progressive. They all have been good to me so far.
Jeff Babineau <sales@targetshootingsupplies.com>
Canada....eh! - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 22:52:20 (ZULU) (your
host address: 24.222.48.30)
If you must reload the brass (and I wouldn't really recommend it) you can get "Small Base" dies from RCBS which will address the oversize issue at the base.
Off to Margaritaville,
Bo <Bo@ashleyoutdoors.com>
Hotter'n 4 shades of Hades, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 23:08:07
(ZULU) (your host address: 216.215.84.82)
I don't feel so bad now after hearing what you have to have done to the knee. ALL I'm getting is a ACL ligament repair and scaping out some damaged cartilage. Good luck man. Hey, maybe we can compare incisions when we get together!
Chuck & Eric,
That 600 yard range in Jax came from www.highpowerrifle.com (Mike Crisler's site). There is a section on shoots and events and there is a 600 yard range mentioned where they hold the Orange Blossom Regional. Somehow affiliated with the Florida Sports Shooting Association. Does that help any?
I don't know - maybe I mixed some medicines I shouldn't have the other morning?!
Moe Mensale
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Friday, September 08, 2000 at 23:21:05 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.194.202)
Marius - keep yer shirt on... I have a crappy internet connection from this hotel.. will straighten out your password problem when I get home tomorrow afternoon.
Cy'all
Ken Hunter ;)
Ken Hunter <ken@hunters.org>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 00:50:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 4.3.240.234)
Ken: 20 lbs? You ARE kidding, aren't you?
Kush: Didn't I tell you that Mike hates Wilsons and ain't bashful?
All: The wife is pissed over some stupid something. SO,... I GO ELK HUNTING!!! (I LOVE IT when she gets mad during hunting season.)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 01:23:32 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.83)
Ken: at 20 pounds, you make me feel wimpy. My 16 unloaded was quite
heavy enough for me!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
gonna question Springfield about their mags!, USA - Saturday, September
09, 2000 at 01:41:45 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.184)
It most likely is the mag, possibley the ammo if re-loads were the flavor of the day.
The problem with the 1911 mags are the follower will tilt down and the tip of the bullet will hit the top of the mag well on the lower reciever. Remedy, do the same as I did with my M16 mags, double spring em'. That will give enoufg tension on the follower so it will not tilt.
That is all I have to say about that
Chuck,
you are right,Ziess makes killer glass, and that is a no-shitter!
Semper Fi!
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo , NY, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 01:44:38 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.28.201.92)
Thanks
Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 05:02:16 (ZULU)
(your host address: 206.245.243.119)
I spoke to Mike Lau at Texas Brigade Armory today(Saturday morning New Zealand time, Friday evening Texas time).
My rifle has finally been shipped!
Hopefully I will have it in less than a week so I can get the scope mounted and zeroed and prepare for the NZ Police shooting champs in November.
He is struggling to keep up with the amount of orders he has but is still taking orders for those of you who want to wait(He says 12 months but count on up to 18).
Breakpoint: Sorry, didn't have time to ask him about your rifle, International calls are not cheap.
Mike also said the web page has only been taken off line while a new one is being designed and will back soon.
We shall see.
Sniff
Sniff <akh805@actrix.gen.nz>
Auckland, New Zealand - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 08:32:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 203.96.26.98)
Leslie, you still around?
Jim <broonsma@prodigy.net>
Portland, Oregon, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 12:55:31 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.255.8.31)
Moe, Cory, Eric,
Sho' nuff!!! They do list a 600yd range in Jax at High Power Rifle's
web sight. I can't seem to find out which one they use. I plan on calling
Monday to see if I can't find that range. I'm about ready to get on the
Buell with the .460 1911-A1 from Clark and see how it works. I won't have
a chrony, so my full assesment will hafta wait another few days.
Everyone,
Thanks for all of the response on the reload question.
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 14:26:25 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.253.150.16)
Kush: home brewed loads are the flavor of EVERY day. My rounds, each one, will gauge perfectly or not go. My ammo is in every facet as good as "factory", but with way more attention paid to every detail. That's why I even keep my loads in the "social pistol", I have 110% confidence in them. Out of all the ammo I've ever loaded, 2 rounds failed to work perfectly, and that was a LONG time ago!
Chuck: oops, forgot it wasn't a Glock ;-) Honestly, I've NEVER lubed a Glock mag, and this mag might be a little dirty. Of course, it would instill greater confidence in me if the pistol and mag worked while carrying a little extra grit or carbon! Now to the loading question. I started the same way, so I can't say it's "bad", but I would say probably not optimal. First off, 'Lito's right, the C-H press is a dandy, and I'd trade my rockchucker off on that in a heartbeat. At only $20 more new, I'd go with the C-H out of the gate for a single stage. I started with a single stage because I had questions about my capability with a progressive, and the progressives capability for accurate fodder. Both were completely unfounded. My opinion is if you can field strip a '16, you can load great ammo on a progressive, it's not rocket science. My statement will be: if you want to load LOTS of great ammo QUICK, get a progressive. If you want to load LOTS of great ammo SLOW, get a single stage. It could be noted though that I've got a bunch of "stations" on my bench to mimic a progressive, but with different tools. Then I got smart and bought the Hornady. In the "old days" before the boy was born (and before I had the progressive) and I was competing more regularly, it was understood that I would use a Saturday and Sunday loading each month. Now I churn out the same ammo in an evening after work. Your call!
Sorry for taking up so much band width, just thought that more people
than just Chuck might be interested in hearing about this, I've got several
mails about loading lately.
Brew Master Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Heck, I brew EVERYTHING at home!, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000
at 15:43:08 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.151)
I will catch up with you hogs later... gotta unpack and tend to the farm...
P.S. I have to knock the web server down for about 20 minutes today to replace the power suppply in it... so keep yer shirts on if you notice..
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Back and sore, from SMTC, and unpackin.... - Saturday, September 09,
2000 at 15:59:14 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.39)
Bravo...
Not $20 bucks... I don't recomend the C-H single station to new
loaders because it's $250, and a Rockchucker is about $100... and not too
many will spend $250 on a single station press... you gotta want that muscle
BAD!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 15:59:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Chuck, just let me know what weekend and I'll be there to shoot. I have another case o' match .308 on order so we'll have plenty to wizz down range.
Larue Targets...they look really spiffy. Cost a pretty penny too.
I think that if I could build/sell them for half the price, well, they
would sell like hot cakes. Chuck I'll e-mail you with some ideas I have.
Time to use my engineering skills. I love banging steel more than I like
making pretty little tight groups. I see a plasma cutter and a tig welder
in my future. Anyone have any cool ideas for a self resetting target that
is simple and inexpensive?
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama Cccity, Fl, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 16:08:32 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.73.61)
Ken (aka "Chainsaw"), removed the paint from his rig last year, and
it had no ill effects.
Put a little oil on the scope, and wipe it off, and see if the hazy
stuff disapears.
You don't have to sand blast to put on a Teflon finish... I was told that, but it turned out to be bull... I did a rifle this summer, and the barrel was stainless with a mirror finish, and the action was stainless with a factory sandblasted finish... and they both look the same... a very nice, uniform, matte finish!
Is your wife back from the mall yet ;)
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 17:00:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
On getting paint off of a scope. Take some good gloves and a rag. Soak the rage in lacquer thinner and wipe the paint off. Do this outside with a fan blowing the fumes away from you. Keep the lenses protected from the thinner. When you are all done wipe a little oil on the tube. NOW READ THIS:LACQUER THINNER WILL MAKE YOU SICK, STUPID OR DEAD IF YOU BREATH ENOUGH OF IT.
Bravo, the jams could be many things. Dirty, tight or a limp wrist. I mean you haver been shooting a 9mm and mave have lost your muscle tone. LOL
Guys on the AR stuff. Watch out, it seems everyone is on the bandwagon to make money off the little guns. If you want a protection piece get something with Military grade parts in it. No fancy crap. Make it dependable first and then worry about shooting enough rounds to hit with it. I see more guys try and buy hits with weapons without spending the trigger time to be good. I will take a guy who has shot many thousands of rounds through an A2, Sprignfield 1911, or PSS over a guy that has spent many thousands of dollars and just dreamed of shooting it.
Safety
Sights
Trigger control
Follow through
Undude/Mike
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 17:36:36 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.200.43)
Cory: 'Lito's right on with that. As for myself, I like freon, notably
F-134A. Strips paint, but won't mess with anodizing, since that's an oxide
and freon is inert. Get a heavy one (liquid) and wipe the stuff off with
a cloth. Just don't get it on plastics. Truth to tell, I doubt you're going
to mess with anodizing with common solvents. It's harder than the al-you-minnie-yum
under it!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Nazis and UPS guys, both brown shirts, any coincidence?, USA - Saturday,
September 09, 2000 at 17:46:27 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.151)
Also a word to any California Civilian Citizens. Speak up now before they take our guns forever. It could get real ugly if the laws keep coming out the way they are.
E. Paz
JackSmack2000@yahoo.com
E. Paz <JackSmack2000@yahoo.com>
Sunny , California, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 17:53:26
(ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.50.95)
Thanks for helping out there. Trust all is well with you and the Huntress and ... what is her name again? About 14/15 years now if I remember correctly?
Rosterfarians,
now you should be able to post agian - not that it really stopped
you in any case! Last day and a half is 77K in any case!
Keep the good stuff coming.
Marius
Marius <mferreira@intekom.co.za>
RSA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 19:29:53 (ZULU) (your host address:
155.239.194.79)
Thanks again!
Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 19:39:14 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.105.22.108)
Removing paint from Leupold scope:
I removed spray paint from my leupold scope - knobs and all using
paint stripper and a tooth brush. Trick is - don't leave it on there
too long. Blop it on with a toothbrush... then go back and start rubbing
it with that tooth brush. It won't take long to break down that spray paint.
Leave the flip caps or lense covers in place while you are doing this.
Remove and clean them later off to the side. I removed the paint sludge
with a damp lacquer thinner rag.
Be patient with this process. Afterward - I put a very thin coat
of oil on the scope housing, then dried with a rag. On the leupold scope
that I did - you can't tell it was ever painted.
Marius:
Huntress's name is Kim (aka Major Kim)
Good Luck All
Ken :)
Good Luck
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 19:41:52 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.233.164.10)
No, not the Huntress, but the Junior Huntress. :-) (Nadine or something similar? No, Nadine doesn't look right.)
Does she share your and Kim's interest?
Marius
Marius <mferreira@intekom.co.za>
RSA - Saturday, September 09, 2000 at 21:28:29 (ZULU) (your host address:
196.25.27.66)
Bravo: Where do I get Freon 134A?
Lito, Of all of the items I have applied teflon to, the beadblasted ones seem to hold the finish better. It works well on mirror finish if I use scotchbrite to prep the suface. I want to get the Winchester finish off of the action, the 'smith is going to b-blast the K&P barrel to match. This thing is going to weigh a ton. I ordered it with a #8 contour barrel. I guess It will be towed .300 win mag like someone else's on the roster. I'm thinking it will help with the .300 WM recoil with out resorting to a muzzle brake. Not that the .300 recoil is all that bad.
Has anyone used the Browwnells OD green teflon spray? Does it look
OD or some pukey green color?
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
Panama City, Fl., USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 01:10:28 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.74.4)
UnDude, honey babe, I love you so, but I don't have a limp wrist. WHINEEEEE. LOL!!! The muscle tone I lost, and significant as it is, was long before I moved to the 9. Guess your muscle tone is coming back with the "new and improved" foot? In my case, the 20 pounds from upper body muscle just moved to the belly, something some running would cure.
Ken: good to hear you made it home in one piece. You carrying that towed gives those of us in "less than ideal" shape a thought of capability anyway. What the heck, right? Sore muscles are temporary, the memories will last forever (not memories of sore muscles though). HA!
OK guys, I've formally done it. The Hornady Lock-n-Load is torqued. Somehow the plate doesn't line up with the priming station by about 5 degrees, just enough to off center the primers. Now I've got a stack of 45's and 5.56's to load. Any help getting this back working would be really appreciated! First screw up with a Hornady press....
After playing around on the "other sites", I gotta tell you guys,
you're ALL great. This is the place, and the best one at that. Thanks for
the info, fun, education, and friendship!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
how many folks it take to take over Cuba?, USA - Sunday, September
10, 2000 at 02:05:50 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.194)
The RugRat just upgraded a belt in Kung-Foo... and the little booger keeps growing ;)
Just wait until he gets into "Sniper-Foo" :) I'll have a spotter that will hump all that crap for "Poor ol' dad!".
I'll use guilt... "... and remember when I watched all those cartoons with you?"
Nite, nite!
'lito
Ken... call me when you're able to pick up a phone.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
... only ONE, and a red button, located in the good ol', USA - Sunday,
September 10, 2000 at 03:14:37 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)
Designer AR's - Wilson's, ZM Weapons, etc, etc. Nice to look at and mighty expensive, close to $2K. Are they worth it? Dunno. What do you want the gun for - show and tell, NRA Highpower or SHTF? My Colt A2 is a defensive weapon, not a tack driver. I paid $900 for it (bargains are out there), PRE-BAN (because we still have that right), 20" standard barrel, standard iron sights. I feed it only Win Q3131A (M193).
The money I saved buys me about 5,000 rounds of 5.56 with which to PRACTICE with, as Mr. Undude said. The gun is battle zeroed to 50yds near, 200yds far. This uses the flatest part of the 5.56's trajectory. The black (9, 10, X) on a standard NRA 100 yard military target is about 6 1/2 inches across. I can consistently (now) put about 95% of my shots into the black, offhand or bench, at 100 yards. Hardly precision work but very good for its intended purpose.
If you are really interested in getting into the Black Rifle Syndrome,
I would suggest you jump over to www.ar15.com Everything you ever wanted
to know about "evil" assault weapons!
Cory,
Pins and screws, huh? Remind me never to go to an airport with you!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
sweatdrippingfromeverthingtoday, FL, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000
at 04:16:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.182)
Sarge
Sarge <garryrn@dfn.com>
Area 51, NM, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 05:00:39 (ZULU) (your
host address: 206.245.243.176)
www.calssportingarmory.com has Bushmaster DCM competition rifles for $1180. Lots of other good stuff.
P.S. California is starting to suck! If I can't sell my Sig Sauer
in CA before the end of the year, I have to sell it out of state next year.
I spent all of last year trying to sell music equipment to buy an AR15
and a .308. Now it's too late for AR in CA, but at least I got my bolt
action .308 finally!
Richard Stark <navelman@hotmail.com>
Fresno, CA, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 05:01:21 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.193.53)
YOU GUYS ARE GREAT!!!!
To --Kent, Al Rick et all ...Thanks for the pics and information
that you all sent on to me. It'll help a lot (or should as Rick pointed
out -Reality and fantasy "AIN"T" the same thing).
Any other info will be appreciated................MIKE
Michael R. Columbus <colum@hamadia.org.il>
Israel - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 07:00:33 (ZULU) (your host address:
212.116.161.38)
www.calssportingarmory.com
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
East L.A., formerly known as Denver, Colorado, USA - Sunday, September
10, 2000 at 07:10:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 38.31.4.234)
Relegalize the right to protect your Liberties. Write a letter. Make a phone call. Fire off an e mail. But speak up and be heard.
E. Paz
E. Paz <JackSmack2000@Yahoo.com>
Somewhere , California, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 07:19:30
(ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.50.95)
Sarge and AR's: mine is as follows: standard A2 upper and lower,
but with 1/2 MOA NM sights. Douglas premium airgauged stainless barrel
custom turned to WAY LIGHT configuration. Freefloat handguard tube (not
the one where you use standard handguards, the one that takes the place
of the handguards). Aluminum gas block at CAR position, standard A2 sight
at rifle position. White trigger adjusted for 3.5 lbs crisp, and an A1
stock (hey, I'm short). Phantom flash hider and ergo-grip pistol grip.
Didn't ask about a bayo lug, wouldn't work in any case, but it's pre-ban.
This was significantly less than what Moe gave. Oh, everything that can
be is US GI. Now you can see why I'm waiting for the brown shirts with
anticipation! Geoff says that in the test-fire, it was sub MOA by a good
bit ;-)
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Sunday, September
10, 2000 at 14:37:28 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.199)
Bravo. Guess I'll stick to gun scrubber or some other solvent. Bummer.
Welcome back Ken...Glad you had a good time. Rod does'nt work you very hard at all, does he. (evil grin).
If you gents are looking for a custom riflesmith that does a fantastic
job at a reasonable price and does not take a million years to build YOUR
rifle, E-mail me direct and I will send you his contact data. As soon as
I get access to a digi camera I will post pics of his product. My gun should
be back around Nov. or Dec. Whenever he brings rifles in to the shop he
brings targets that show the rifles capabilities. The last .338 LM he built
the largest group ran 1/2 inch, but that was with a called flyer, and the
smallest of the three three shot group ran .161 (all at 100 yards).
Cory <Ranger9@hotmail.com>
PC, FL, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 14:45:03 (ZULU) (your host
address: 158.252.73.41)
Saw your post, and the reference to fantasy, and knowing Rick... he's one of the most knowledgeable guys on the site.
I'll make this comment about that shot... it's not a slam on Carlos, though some would consider it as such... but it's just another dose of reality.
There has been much made (perhaps too much), of the Carlos 2500 yd shot with the 50 cal M2.
Keep in mind this... the standard M2 50 cal, is not a very accurate firearm... maybe 2 to 3 inch grouping ability at 100 yards, fired one shot at a time. It was designed to punch through light armor, destroy equipment, punch through cinderblock, and light concrete, tear up airplanes... etc. Not a target rifle.
Add to that, the ammo is not "match" and has a fair amount of dispersion... the ultimate "grouping" ability of an M2 with issue ammo at 2500 yds might be about the size of a 4 story building.
Also, at best, assuming there was a rifle that could shoot a human sized group at that range (???), the falling angle of the round is so steep, that a miss calculation of only 50 yards in range would result in an over or under shot of +/- 25 feet... and the shot was made before laser ranging equipment.
The shot was one of many that were fired each morning, and evening, to harass the "enemy"... keep them away from water, etc... and that one shot just happened to "hit".
The rest was press. This does not detract from Carlos Hathcock's true achievements... they were earned the hard way... but don't make this shot some magic high point in your movie... you'll do a disservice to a fine hero.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 15:05:48 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
I'm not going to cuss Ruger. That stock, however, needs help in the form of packing the action to a point about 2" in front of the recoil lug with something like devcon. Otherwise the action is stressed, torqued and waving in the breeze.
O.K., on this sling question. For these heavy rifles I truly belive I've never seen a better answer that Mike Miller's slings. I have one now, and, in due time, I'll have two more. They're good, and you'll never hear me say different. But, for aquiring a sitting slung position with a sporter in less than 1.5 seconds, I'll take a leather 'Ching Sling' every time. The leather has more friction and doesn't rely on being cinched down. To employ it you jam your arm through, drop to sitting and go bang quick, quick. Those flush mounted 'Uncle Mike's' swivvels attach to the stock with Devcon. Uglier than cat s**t on cardboard, but it works.
Now then, to the scope: You don't make 600 yard shots on deer with anything resembling the rifles discussed here. 400 is a long shot with these rifles under true field conditions. You are more likely to get 1.5 seconds to hit a pie pan sized target at 100 yards. That's a snap-shot and a job for a fairly low powered QUALITY scope mounted low over the bore. Let me reemphasize QUALITY! I HATE surprises. A 4X will also work for the longish shots you'll do. D&R sells the plain vanilla Loopie for about the same as the Tasco you mentioned.
Add a Milt Sparks leather butt-cuff, built-up to give you a good stock weld, and this is a tool for actually killing deer in the real world.
That's the easy part. Now learn to shoot it. I, for one, am still learning.
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the management
...etc, etc, etc.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 16:42:39 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.85)
I don't know what you are talking about. I briefly saw your post regarding my misbehaving and not being nice to 'lito. I trolled back thru and don't see anywhere in here where I have made any remark of the negative type to him.
Indeed I would suspect that had I said something wrong to him there wold be a truck load of responses from him and the other regulars here.
Perhaps you're needin some glasses.
lito',
If for some reason Bolt is correct, let me know what it was so I can decide if what I said was right or not.
ALL,
I just received my choate USS Major Paster type stock and want to put my Savage 110 Tactical .300 WM into it. Are there any special considerations I need to be aware of? Should I take it to the local armorer or is it the kind of thing a straight shootin but non-technical type like me can put together?
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Don't know what yer talkin about here in, NY, USA - Sunday, September
10, 2000 at 17:11:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.111.246)
I find your callin me a "character" offensive.
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 17:15:04 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.111.246)
I'm terribly upset (bawling, bawling, bawling). You spent "significantly less" than my $900 for what appears to be (by your description) a customized AR? I'm hurt. I thought I stole my R6551 from the dealer (who obviously didn't know what he had).
I don't have a bayo lug either, but that Phantom flash suppressor looks like it could do a standup job in a pinch!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 17:25:14 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.201.201)
Other than cost, would a .30-378 Weatherby make a good sniper rifle? According to the ballistics, a 165g bullet would still be at 2480 fps, have 2253 ft lbs, and have a 19" drop @500 yards. It sounds good, but everyone seems enamored with the Remington 700 in .308.
What am I missing?
-dave
dave <dgoad@nothnbut.net>
wentzville, mo, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 17:55:07 (ZULU)
(your host address: 199.217.177.142)
Mars and Bolt: I caught that a while back, but I think Bolt got confused. The scuffle was between Matt and Patron 'Lito. Mars just did the stand up job ;-)
Paz: I'm sorry, I didn't catch that this was a hunter. Brother CDC
is right. You wouldn't catch me hunting with my monster rifle (it's too
heavy, and I'm too lazy to hump it for miles). I've got a nice lightweight
sporter built upon a Krag carbine action (not by me, I purchased it pre-butchered).
For hunting at range, I prefer the fixed 4 that CDC mentioned also. As
for power, the 30-40 does the trick!
Flu master Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
sorry guys, I post too much when I'm sick, USA - Sunday, September
10, 2000 at 17:59:06 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.223)
--- CDC
> E.,
>
> If you haven't committed to taking exactly that
> rifle in exactly that
> caliber, some of the guys on the Roster could make
> some useful
> suggestions.
>
> CDC
Paz <JackSmack2000@Yahoo.com>
Somesmalltown, California, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 18:01:09
(ZULU) (your host address: 24.31.50.95)
Thanks for the defence. I was wondering if maybe those voices in my head had finally gotten control O' me fingers and I just didn't catch it.
Bolt,
Its good to see that you are a stand up guy and went to the plate for 'lito. Watchin the back of a team member is always an integral part of your mission. Hooaah to you, no harm no foul.
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta, NY, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 18:40:56 (ZULU) (your
host address: 147.205.111.246)
BillR. says I can't spell, guess I can't read either. That comes
with old age, beware.
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 18:40:59 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.56.156)
As I said no harm Bro. I am still with ya.
Play Hard!
Mars.
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
Oneonta if you add a "p" to the end of my city's name what do ya get?,
NY, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 18:49:02 (ZULU) (your host address:
147.205.111.246)
Although I haven't met any of the folks [that will change for sure next year, have a date with AlO. next year at the Egg Shoot now that I found the place], I respect the talents and sometimes even the humor [well some humor anyway] of everyone here. Masters Gooch, Lito, PeteR, BillR., Bowcher, Sarge and of course the Undude have put up with my ramblings and redundant questions for a long time. One of these days I may even be able to contribute something myself.
Stupid things that are camoflaged:
Cigarette lighters! Is the smoke camo'd also LOL?
Billfolds! Gonna pay while you play?
Underwear! Really can't figger this one out!
Name some more!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bolt <reeldoctor@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 19:00:43 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.138.56.156)
So how bout it; anyone think I gotta do anything other than drop tha Chaote USS onto my Savage or is there some secrets I need to know?
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
OneOnTa + P = Oneontap , NY, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 19:40:38
(ZULU) (your host address: 147.205.111.246)
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 20:04:02 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.233.164.39)
ken
Ken <hunterkr@riflement.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 20:11:01 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.233.164.39)
An interesting thread is struggling to be born here. When Michael brings up the question on Gunny H's 2K yard plus shot with the BMG. There are so many variables in making a shot at any distance. As the distance increases the time that those variables can effect the flight of the bullet increases, the accuracy of distance determination drops and the time of flight increases. ANYONE that tells you that they can hit a human target, in a field firing environment, with a cold bore and no sighters at distances greater than 800 or so yards is probably in a fantasy world.
On the Billy Dixon shot. I think the quote is "Either Billy had a lucky day or the Indian had a very unlucky one."
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 20:42:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.115.26)
Dave .30-.378: There is more to a rifle's effectiveness than ballistics tables. Get into a nice cozy prone with a rifle that generates something like that kind of recoil. A lightweight .338 is pretty wimpy, but it will do. Shoot two twenty shot strings. Now have your partner hand you the rifle a few times without telling you if its loaded or not. When you drop the firing pin on an empty chamber, how do your crosshairs look on your target? Unless you have the pain tolerance of a brass buddah, those crosshairs are doing all kinds of undesirable things.
Now, how long does that barrel last? How much does it cost to shoot? How fast does the tube heat up?
Mars: I'll say it. Not only are you a character, you're a HELL of a character. Welcome aboard.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 20:58:14 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.68)
Master Dave L,
Your e-mail address keeps getting bounced back on me.
I Got a burning last minute question for you on the Project.
Chao!
************************************************************
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
just back in BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at
21:20:43 (ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.53)
Boltster Dude-ski...
Mars didn't say anything that I can think of... course I get so
much heat, I wouldn't recognize an insult if I heard one. You should hear
what the sheepies say to me on a date ;)
Man do I have a lappin job for you... I'm cutting down the front
ring on a set of Badgers, for a 1800 yd shoot, and the total is .07"...
yah almost a 1/10 of an inch... wanna come up and visit for a few days
;)).
And speakin' of Reel Doctors... I've been throwing my #308 UL Garcia
at fish for some 20 years now (I throw the reel, hold onto the lure...
works better!)
I went to get the RugRat a new rig today (he outgrew the Snoopy
one), and there's nothing but HondaKawaGoochieFoo reels, and poles... what
the hell happened to Garcia? Their stuff was damn good!
Dave...
Some of us are enamored with the Winchester M70, in .308 too ;)
But to answer you... the 30-378 is a bitch on barrels, having a useful
life of something like just sighting it in ;)... you have to shoot a lot
to be good with a long range rifle, and most of us would go through five
or six 30-378 barrels in a good year, but we couldn't get them re-barreled
fast enough... also, the blast, and muzzle flash would be your death...
if you shot from dry grass, you'd set the stuff on fire...
plus it's not a pleasent gun to shoot for 100 to 200 rounds prone,
and your spotter would leave town, and you'll be on your own.
On what Gooch said...
You go to your spot, unpack your kit, range your target, and fire
one shot, with a "Must hit" or no shoot condition.
Yup... What Gooch said! 800 yds is a good call.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 22:11:10 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
If this won't work, please tell me why not--
Leon Day
Leon Day <LeonDay@bootbox.net>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 22:29:51 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.25.56.23)
Sure the shot from Adobe Walls was luck... but the more you know, and the more better a shot your are, the smaller the dose of luck it takes to make you look good!
If you shoot a lot, and do it in front of others, eventually you will "Do one" and be an instant legend... for a while ;)
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 23:00:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Writing Pens - Do they have disappearing ink?
Toilet Paper - No kidding! saw some at a gun shop.
Fishing Line - In Idaho a shop has some line that is cammo'd to
be different colors throughout the spool. ("Here fishy, fishy." "Hey, Bert,
don't let em see ya!")
Match Sticks - Came in brown or green. Wonder if the flame is tan.
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 23:09:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
38.31.5.31)
All the Florida Roster-Rats,
I went to the range in the Ocala National Forest today. It was a
nice ride on the Buell and that's about it. For pistols it wouldn't be
too bad however the pistol and rifles fire on the same small range and
it only goes to 100 yds. Actually, if my range estimation is any good,
I'd put it at 85yds.
'lito and Bravo,
Thanks again for the help.
Moe,
I've got $10 on Cory's scars!!
Semper Fi!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 23:24:54 (ZULU)
(your host address: 63.253.149.198)
$730 plus your "finely aged" PWA lower and upper - I feel much better now. But I still got a bargain for an all-Pony pre-ban. I really can't complain about my box stock R6551. It shoots better than I can. The only things I have done to it were to replace the Smith comp that was on it with the Phantom flash suppressor and remove the pinned in sear block that Colt thought would be PC. Other than that, I have contemplated getting an Aimpoint XD/M but that's about it. I don't plan on turning it into a christmas tree with the latest-gotta-have-it-gizmos hanging from it.
BTW, who is Geoff and what does he build? As you can see, I am new here (but learning).
Get (sniffle, sniffle) better.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 23:26:03 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.194.188)
Mark?... MARK??? Otay guys, I'll behave, I promise!
Movers at long range are a fantasy... see Gooch's remarks above, and multiply by 10X.
At close range at a match, you will "maybe" get one pass-by to see the mark (aka, target)... that's about 3 seconds... and then you will have to decide whether to track, or trap... pick your points, and set up for the shot... the lead will be in inches, to maybe a foot, and you will have ZERO time to fool with anything, it goes by too fast.
Maybe 10 seconds later, you will get the mark (Mr. Target)...
In real life, you may get a few seconds of the mark (I mean TARGET)... and that's it! It may be an officer going to the crapper, or a radio op crossing a clearing... and that's it... no tryout, no passby, no Nada! Moving Marks... er... moving targets, are "shakie puddin".
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
In Mafia country, lookin' for "The Mark!", in good ol', USA - Sunday,
September 10, 2000 at 23:33:01 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)
$10 on Cory's scars? You're on, dude. I'm gonna have the doc gimme some "designer" scars and even have them cammo'd, yea, that's the ticket!
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Sunday, September 10, 2000 at 23:33:51 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.194.188)
Patron 'Lito (and Bolt since you're surely knowlegable!): the next step from a "Snoopy" reel will be a Mitchell for Bubba. Already purchased it. I've got my fair share of Mitchell Garcia's (from when they were together), and the Mitchells seem to be almost as good. Garcias now, IMHO, aren't worth their weight. I actually cut partially through a bail with Stren. BAH! I can live quite comfortably with Mitchell Garcias for the rest of this life, at least for the spincast type ;-)
Kent and 'Lito: hey, don't speak too much truth, the "marks" will get cocky ;-) Really though, you're RIGHT on! Now that we've said that I got $20 on the UnDude cold at 1000 y in the zone.
Gratuitous plug for Geoff Corn: Geoff is the Navy National Match
armorer, among other things, and builds the finest M-14 types I've ever
seen. The "REAL M-14 PRO" on this site turned me onto him, and I've never
looked back. My Geoff M-25 is sub 1/2 MOA. For fun, since AR's are NM stock
now, I asked him about one. He told me that he builds a MUCH better AR
than M-14. Hokay. Then, talking to him one evening, he told me he built
a MUCH better bolt gun than AR. Of course, Patron Dave can tell you about
Geoff's AR's also, they were at Perry. Needless to say, it's made getting
that custom 260 MUCH harder to NOT do! Geoff shoots High Master, and his
wife is just a step behind, with his stuff.
Mastered by Flu Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
sippin' the wifies home brews, cream soda and root beer, USA - Monday,
September 11, 2000 at 00:41:55 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.179)
>>I have a scope question...
Rob,
I've had the M1 turrets installed on a 4.5X14 LRT. Not sure of your question of knob vs. turret, but they are the exact same as the turrets on the M1...not the same as the M3. The Leupold Mil-Dot is calibrated at Max (14 in this case). I believe Premier can calibrate it at any power you desire but it does not change with the magnification...it will only be calibrated at one power...most people stick with the max to get the best mil-dot reading. The best bet is to ask Dick Thomas from Premier via their web site or on shooters.com, the Tactical or Optics board. The work they did for me was top-notch and turn around time was three days in the shop...
>>Script calls for homemade Ghillies - eerie looking burlap camoufage --plausible ???
Michael,
It appears everyone has answered the M2 question for the movie but I also noticed that there was a reference to Gillie suits going to be used...did the Marines actually use Gillies in VN ? I believe Maj. Land experimented with them in Hawaii but am unsure if these were in use in VN. Any ideas ?
regards,
Jim
Jim <NeverForget_27Oct69@yahoo.com>
USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 01:05:12 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.239.216.34)
Thanks for the welcome and yes I guess
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
One on tap in , NY, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 01:19:54 (ZULU)
(your host address: 147.205.111.246)
Thanks for the welcome and yes I guess "character" might be a suitable lable. Perhaps I should not have been so offended. Fact is I am certain that I have been called worse. As for Mr Bolt I am pleased with our ability to reconcile. I look for ward to perhaps meeting him some day. Perhaps I can get him to teach me somthing about fishing cause droppin a frag in the pond is startin to piss of the neighbors. HA!
I have felt very at home since having found this site and am glad to participate and even happier to do what what I did most often when I was operating on behalf of our collective favorite Uncle(Sam); look, listen, learn and take the occasional well placed shot.
Thanks for the help with the Choate stock. Yes I did have it out to adjust the trigger and am really quite happy with it thus far. I think however that I am going to go with the replacement from Brownelles. The adjustment is good but can it be better? If so then I shoud make it so.
Well thanks all for everything you put out here, good, bad or ugly I think its great.
Play Hard!
Mars
Mars <edfernley@hotmail.com>
One on tap in , NY, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 01:21:05 (ZULU)
(your host address: 147.205.111.246)
Did you do the Hornady machine yet.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Found the Mark, but he keeps movin' around, and I can't get a shot
at him... in Mafia Country, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 01:28:13
(ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)
Thanks,
Gonzo
Gonzo <ktmp5@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 01:45:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.25.164.73)
On long range - I think Gooch was being kind with 800 yard first round hits. We go to 800 meters in the course and first round hits at that range is rare enough for beer bets. And not sure beer bets. 600 meters to maybe 650. After that first round hits drop fast. A 1 mph wind will move the bullet about 7 inches at 800 meters, add in the normal group size of about 9 - 10 inches and you have exceeded the width of the target.
Movers - establish a set lead for your caliber at set ranges and go with the mils. Movers past 300 becomes very shakey because of old man wind (not you Lito). When a target is moving into the wind you must add the wind effect and with the wind subtract the wind effect. Thus a 1.25 mil lead at 300 would become a 1.75 mil lead when you have a .5 mil wind and the target is moving against the wind but would become a .75 mil lead when moving with the wind. This becomes real fun at 600 when the lead is 1.75 mils and the wind is 2 mils and the target is moving with the wind you must aim behind the leading edge by yep, BEHIND, by .25 mils. And as pointed out this must be down in seconds.
Why .308 as a sniper round, - as stated you can practice without barrel loss and shoulder loss. Even a 'puny' 300 Win Mag will do you a job after 100 rounds of practice snap target engagement in one day. Snaps are fun and are where the target must be engaged within 3 secs over a 7 meter front. Then the barrel wears out and the whole process starts over.
Well will take a big glass of shut the heck up now go to bed.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 02:17:08 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.201.57)
El Lito'; yep, like we always say around here. It take a lot of practice
and hard work to make luck work for you.. but that's right Gooch! Some
Indians just ain't lucky! I think that is the quote right on if I remember
it right. If you guys haven't read Billy Dixon's book (the last adapted
version in the 20's) you would really like it.
He was one of us! A real plainsman survivalist, rifleman and Sniper
all rolled into one. I've personally retraced his steps though his old
haunts here on the Texas and Western plains. Much more than just a Buffalo
hunter who made a good shot!
Ghillie's in Nam; Let me try. Some may want to correct parts of
this but in Nam there was much natural cover as a rule. The VC used it
and the Americans used it to an extent also. The heat was terrible in the
hundreds even at night in the lowlands. The Natural cover was more welcome
than any added garment. The tall grass was a preferred hide in a lot of
cases as it offered immediate retreat where needed and was cooler with
the shade if offered. Ghillie's weren't unheard of but were just a bit
too hot to be popular.
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 02:39:47 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Also, could you recommend a rifle for around 1500$ Canadian as per the above requirements?
Thanks very much.
A. Lloyd <moiety@hotmail.com>
Canada - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 03:14:26 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.112.147.124)
'yote bate...
A hundred yards... man you're using too small a weapon.
Last year, mine was lifted up 20 feet clear in the air, and hit
the ground with "x" in it's eyes... no whimpy .243 though... I used a 87
Caravan, at 80 feet per second!!
But the guys in the other lane, made deer-burger out of him!
'lito ;)
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Welding spikes on the Caravan, cuz deer season's comin' in good ol',
USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 03:29:24 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Sorry guys must be old timers disease setting in.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 03:44:13 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.201.57)
Hey, I'll get back to you on the DM questions guys, sometimes I have to check in with the chiefs before I run my mouth, eh!!!
Dave with the 30-378wby vs. .308 win:
Anything round with wby in its nomenclature is considered a barrel
burner. It's the nature of the round. Ol' Roy loved to outdo the mags already
on the market, ASAP, and to do that he had to pack a lot o' powder in a
big ol' long case, necessitating a long action receiver. You do realize
the 30-378 holds more powder than a 300 RUM? Because of that powder capacity,
in order for a 30-378wby to be relatively effective you need AT LEAST a
28" barrel, which would not be considered sniper-friendly in the bush.
Most of the .308's in the field are a short action with 24" barrels. They
are built to be relatively quick and light, not clumsy. Swing a 28" barreled
long action around all day and compare. Also, a .308's recoil is less than
that of a 30-06, and much much less than a 30-378. A sniper has to keep
in touch with his inner child, at least 100 rds a day, and the 30-378 would
definitely bring in the social services, cause that kid wouldn't wanna
come out and play any more. Plus you'd have to rebarrel every week or so.
They love to smoke the barrels. and LOUD!! the muzzle blast, especially
since you'd need a muzzle brake to keep ya from wincin', wouldn't be that
hard to spot. I know, I've seen the fireballs downstairs!!
The 30-378wby is a great benchrest round, hell, us barrelmakers
love 'em, keeps us in business, but as far as being put into use as an
all-round sniper cartridge, it'll get thumbs down, every time. They are
accurate, push them 220's where ya want 'em.
later
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
burnttothegroundin, sd, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 04:54:14
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.201.67)
To Undude: 338 Lapua Brass from Lapua has had its rim specs changed. In the beginning it had a a rim like Norma, but IT WAS NOT ACCORDING TO THE SPECS. Later on they changed the rim to the official specification that is used by C.I.P. I guess the first version had the same specs than .416 Rigby and the latter one is a proper 338 LM rim. Unfortunately most shell holder manufacturers still believe .416 Rigby and 338 Lapua have the same rim specs. The specs ARE different.
The use of 45-70 RCBS shell holder is news to me, have to try it. Another way was to take 416 Rigby shell holder and enlarge it with a Dremel tool a little.
Got to go.
Heikki
Heikki Juhola <juhola@luukku.com>
Helsinki, Finland - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 06:56:11 (ZULU) (your
host address: 193.65.143.15)
thanks
dave <ezoeni@hotmail.com>
bellevue, wa, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 07:07:33 (ZULU) (your
host address: 4.35.244.36)
Gooch--Pablito ------Thanks for comments.
Talking about a MAX M2 1000 Yard shot. Am trying to add a line in
the script that the shooter insists he sights in to the specific proposed
range.
And ---given that theY have all nite and the hide is max 100yds
IN--he and his no. two hump it in pieces. If they do it that way and don't
cut it in the cutting room it would be true and seen to be true---who knows
its only a MOVIE......ONE ROUND ONE _ _ _ _ ............MIKE
Michael R. Columbus <colum@hamadia.com.il>
Israel - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 08:00:46 (ZULU) (your host address:
212.116.161.38)
For a 175 SMK @2650 fps the turret for 30-06 on my M3LR is pretty much right on. I know that there will be some tweeking but what's neat is that I won't have to carry a come-up sheet, the numbers are on the dial.
Does Harris make a swivel bipod with the notched detents on the legs instead of the friction wheels???? If so what's the P/N??
Twelve days on the wake-up. Hoooyaaahhh!
Kevin R. Mussack <kmussack@aol.com>
Clifton Springs, New York, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 09:32:25
(ZULU) (your host address: 152.163.194.186)
> "Movers - Wow! Did I screw that up tonight..."
What you said the first time, made perfect sense to me... is that a bad sign, or what?
> "Sorry guys must be old timers disease setting in."
Is it catching? I think I've got it! You make sense to me!
And of course, to mess it all up, real movers (aka "Bad Guys"), rarely cross you at 90 degrees... they quarter and third you...
So... in 4 or 5 seconds... take the speed of the target, plus or
minus the wind (account for old timers disease), and take the co-sine of
the quartering angle, and multiply by... Aw shit... call in a T.O.W...
'lito (I think)
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
In a totally confused state of mind, in good ol', USA - Monday, September
11, 2000 at 09:40:19 (ZULU) (your host address: 24.191.22.47)
The '06/yards connection on the M3 series has been mentioned here before... it's good to go!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
Why are we up, talkin' this stuff, at this hour in the morning??? in
, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 09:44:20 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
.22 rimfire then .223 then .308. Get COMPETENT instruction from day one, dry fire a few hundred thousand times and press the trigger like your life depends on it EVERY TIME. Practice DOES NOT make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 11:20:52 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.16)
All Florida Roster-Rats,
I have been e-mailed about a 200yd range run by the State in Lake
City. I would imagine (I still hafta check) that it's in the Osceola Forest.
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 11:39:56 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
has anyone here ever used a "nikko stirling" scope?
are they any good, comments?
Sean <nailer@perf.bc.ca>
Mackenzie, B.C., Canada - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 15:21:57 (ZULU)
(your host address: 204.244.206.9)
Kevin, Harris does indeed make the bipod you spoke of! I have one but will have to look and see what part # is on it or if it even has one. They are one of the ones that start out with a BR prefix. Hang on and if you don't get an answer sooner I will lookie-peekie and e-mail you after I get in this PM.
Vern
Vern <VernLHamn@worldnet.att.net>
Not Quite So Hot Houston, TX, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 15:38:51
(ZULU) (your host address: 208.242.58.99)
Some points on slings:
Two types of slings are out there. One is a shooting sling and the other is a carry sling. Mine does both well.
My sling is quick and you can hit moa with it. You can not hit moa with a Ching sling. I can go from standing to seated 200 yard headshots in less than five seconds and not miss even once.
You can carry my rifle, while climbing, over a full pack or just your back. I dont beleave you can do this with a Ching Sling.
Leather is not a good material for a tactical sling. It molds, stretches and is heavy (compared to nylon)
A sling is designed to be tight and lock the weapon into you. Friction is not good enough for precision shooting. You have to have a push pull effect to make it work.
What I did is take a cuff type sling and modify it for field use.
Heikki, Thank you for the info on the 338 Lapua. I truly love the round and the HS Precision rifle is shooting 1/2 moa with handloads. I have only loaded a couple of hundred rounds with the 45/70 shell holder.
Rick Boucher, good to see you back here. I agree with the 800 yard max you and the Gooch Master spoke of. Especially when you factor in NO range flags unknown distance and no sighters/ REAL WORLD.
I have been messing around with different calibers for a few years now and what I believe is that for all around use the 308 Winchester is the way to go. Most guys dont shoot the bigger calibers as well as the 308 and the smaller calibers suck. This is not a game of High Power Shooting.
On 50 versus 44 MM Objective. I do not like to use anything over 44mm if I do not have to. I have a 58mm objective on my 338 Lapua, but that is a 17 power and I am shooting past 1000 yards with it. I do not worry about someone spotting that large piece of glass on a stalk. Actually next time I stalk against Rick and Gooch I think I will use a 20mm objective, 2' sunshade and bury myself in the dirt. They didn't get me with my lense last time but that probably because they were too busy spotting everyone elses.
Undue/Mike Miller
Mike Miller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 15:56:48 (ZULU) (your host
address: 152.163.201.206)
Wilson rifles,
I had the oppurtunity to examine a Wilson AR at a gun show last
month. It had a decent trigger and a tough finish on the receiver, but
that was it. For $2000, it better shoot itself. It was well made but not
worth the asking price. I see too many guns from well known AR shops for
half that price to justify what I think is a name. I have maintained a
strong loyalty to Les Baer 1911's but it really hurt my opinion of him
when I found out he was doing the same thing.
Gunny Hathcock's shot,
The way I remember the book is that he had fired sighter shots that
morning at the exact location where the kill was made. When he spoke about
it on Plaster's Ultimate Sniper video, I got the feeling it was a luck
shot.
The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God Bless TX, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 17:28:24 (ZULU) (your
host address: 208.21.196.108)
My vote has to go for the flashlights, especially the mini-Maglight size. Either it is dark and the light is on, making it useless, or it is dark and the light is off, meaning that once you drop it, you have to search for it with your (much dimmer) backup light. Even during the daytime, if a small one gets dropped, it can be real tough to find in the typical leaf litter. I'll take mine in black.
That's it for stuff that is actually supposed to be used. Not for
field use are the different pieces of furniture upholstered in camo patterns.
Even sillier are the camoflauge diapers, undoubtedly for parents living
in Arkansas or similar country. ;-)
Karl <dahm0030@tc.umn.edu>
Damn Cold, Mn, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 20:31:41 (ZULU)
(your host address: 134.84.148.151)
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 20:56:57 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
Loading tip for the day: Hornady one-shot. It's great. Bye bye Lee
paste case lube!
Working over the flu Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Monday, September
11, 2000 at 21:00:49 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.164)
We have a small gun club in the high desert just outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico. It appears that we might be able to get funding for a new, large, state-of-the-art range complex. If this comes to pass we hope to have the new range complex up and running with 18 months.
Let me tell you our initial ideas on two of the ranges for the complex.
Then I would appreciate hearing from you on how this compares with your concept of an ideal range. Also where is the best range you have shot at located? What was it that impressed you about that range?
We will meld any ideas received into our planning.
1000-Yard Range: This range will have 20 positions with the targets controlled from a pit. At 1000-yards from the targets will be a set of 20 benchrests, with shooting pads for prone shooting next to each. At 800-yards and 900-yards from the targets will be a row of 20 shooting pads. This way we can have 1000-yard benchrest matches, straight 1000-yard prone matches and Palma matches.
600-Yard Range: This will be a dual-purpose range. There will be
20 targets controlled from a pit at 600-yards for normal prone shooting
from
shooting pads. There will be no benchrests on this range. We will also
use the range for unknown distance shooting. Life-size animal targets will
be placed at various distances unknown to the shooter. These targets will
be relocated daily at the whim of the range master. This will give hunters
a chance to see what they can do in a more realistic environment using
their normal hunting equipment. Those who like to brag that they can routinely
hit the kill zone of a deer somewhere around 400-yards away will see how
valid their claims are.
Davey in NM
Davey in NM <David.J.Leestma@worldnet.att.net>
Albuquerque, NM, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 21:47:53 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.74.2.29)
>.22 rimfire then .223 then .308. Get COMPETENT instruction from day >one, dry fire a few hundred thousand times and press the trigger >like your life depends on it EVERY TIME. Practice DOES NOT make >perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
Why do you suggest the .22 and the .223 before the .308? I'm not doubting your advice, I'd just like to know the reasoning behind it.
Thanks!
ALloyd <moiety@hotmail.com>
Canada - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 22:10:28 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.112.147.124)
I borrowed a drag bag last week @ storm. Forgot to check the manufacturer - but I like the way it was arranged. It had a sort of pocket area for the muzzle with tiedowns along the way for the rest of the rifle. Now these could be better as velcrow or snap ties.
The main body for the rifle was a good zipper which I liked alot. It had 2 large pouches on the outside for your gear - which also had very high grade zippers on them.
This dragbag had the shoulder straps so that you can carry this rig on your back on a long hump. Folks - that's the trick to carrying a heavy rifle, etc. We were required to carry spotting scope, data book, etc and 250 rounds of ammo - per man. Yes this all fit in that drag bag - with the .308towed in the rifle side. But - again - being able to carry all this on my back made it doable.
Now - what kind of drag bag did I describe? I don't know. What I do know is I need some good recommendations and sources for dragbags... I need to get one before the rondevous. I have become a dragbag dude....
thanks in advance -
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 22:24:48 (ZULU)
(your host address: 207.233.164.10)
You should doubt the hell out of me. You don't know me from Adam. But (quick and dirty) here's why I suggest that sequence: To shoot you have to do a bunch of things simultaneously. You have to develop muscle memory for lots of different things and you have to develop a lot of conditioned responses. These need to be built up in a sequence. This takes time. I've heard that it's 3000 repetitions per response, but you hear lots of stuff. You can do a bunch of that with a .22. Just as importantly you need to avoid developing any conditioned responses to the noise and recoil of the gun. You remember Pavlov; ring the bell, feed the dog. After a while you ring the bell and the dog salivates. Its the same with shooting. Press the trigger, hear nasty noise, get bumped on shoulder, flinch. A little of that and its: press the trigger and flinch. Ask the honest ones here if they have ever fuzzed out when they dropped the pin on a dud. (Not me of course!!) So, WITH THE PROPER INSTRUCTION and PERFECT PRACTICE, you develop correct positions and trigger control with a .22, but you don't develop a flinch.
A .223 weighs, hefts and acts like a real rifle. With it you dope
wind and judge range and learn to get hits at distance. Its cheap to shoot
and (no small thing) ITS FUN! But you are still reinforcing your good techniques
and not developing any bad conditioned responses.
Now you move to a real rifle.
We're about to have a bunch of very knowledgable shooters disagree with me up and down the road. Let the games begin.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Monday, September 11, 2000 at 22:48:24 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.99)
Just got off the phone with Geoff, and guess who was chosen to build the target rifle for a soon to be retired AMU high ranker? I'm telling you guys, if you want a Chandler, McMillan, Robar rifle, but at a fraction of the cost, get ahold of this guy! He's worth his weight in Bravo Brew!
Got this new CAR, and no new name to go with it. Youse guys know
me, any suggestions?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
Gonna take sudafed and plink with the CAR!, USA - Monday, September
11, 2000 at 22:54:03 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.183)
I try and start guys off with 22lr. They have to follow through or they miss. It is a slow little bullet. Then to 223's and then 308's. That is when I have time. Now if they are grown men and want to do the sniper thing. I do not waist time with 223. They go straight to 308 and recoil will go away after a few thousand rounds of shooting. Learn to read the wind for the round you plan on using and forget it for other rounds. It is hard enough to learn the wind and range estimation for one round let alone several. If you notice all the talk about is always how fast the wind is going. Guys have huge trouble with this. Me I just look at things and make corrections based on how the same conditions moved my bullets in the past. In short I estimate it and make corrections based on the last time I estimated the same wind with the same round, under the same conditions. If I say to myself that it looks like 7-10mph and it is only 6-8mph, it wont matter if I use the same settings as the last time I screwed up how fast the wind was going. Now you cant do this if you change bullets every day, or shoot once a month.
Now many of you use wind readers of one type or another, but my experience with them is the same as Lasers, they only work when you dont need them. Learn something that does not require batteries.
Fear the man that has only one rifle and knows how to use it.
Bravo, my friend, a Match Trigger in a combat weapon? Trouble follows all that play with target things in the field. It is a fine trigger and so are the Smith sites but you would be better off, IMHO, with standard AR trigger and A2 sites. Match parts belong at Camp Perry. With that said the 748 powder has worked very well for me with 69 grain bullets. In my Service Match Rifle. Your rifle may end up being neither fish nor fowl. Although it sounds as one fine machine, I have doubts about living with it under field conditions. Blood, sweat, dirt and other things have a way of jamming up finely fitted parts.
Bravo, I have seven ARs. What did you see me with in the field? It
was a stock M4 Carbine. I leave the fancy semi auto stuff at home or take
them to the matches. A shoty AR is designed for rough and tumble work.
Chrome lined bbl, sloppy chamber, quick and easy sites. Think of it as
Rock Tuff. That is what holds up the best. I know this is a sniper site
and we all love precision, but combat has many different gears, sniper
rifles have to hit at long distances. AR's fall into the ultra dependable
and hit quickly with at moderate ranges catagory. Now a few of the smiths
out there are capable of doing a great deal to the little rifle and having
it still work, but all the ones I have had worked on failed in the rock
catagory, so stock it is. That is unless Bill Wlyde tells me he can do
it. He is the best AR Man on the planet!
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 00:07:11 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.193.153)
A.Loyd - The same goes for your quest. Start small and do everything with a purpose and exactly right the same way everytime. Practice until you puke, then shoot another box of 22.
Bravo - We discourage drag bags because guys actually drag the dam things while moving and thus bang them against bushes that wave like flags. Using the scope cover and muzzle cover a la Undude Mike and you will have a good combo. Unless you use one of those "fragile" M21/25 thingies. Then wrap it in Kotex and pray to the gun god for salvation. :-) Actually your thoughts on using the drag bag is right, use it to protect those moving parts but carry it don't drag it on a strap. Bad form what.
Ken - Not the foggiest on the drag bag, several companies make some very good rifle bags as you discribed. Eagle and Blackhawk make some real nice ones that unfold into shooting mats. These are real good for the LEA that will be stuck on the cold or hot concrete or tar roof.
Mike - If that muzzel break had not have thrown that bush 50 feet I probaby would have missed you. ;-)
Have guys and play nice!
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 00:15:51 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.197.197)
Rick, it was a small bush and the roots were not very deep. You going up to Storm for the shoot? I have to send a few slings I promised Rod a month ago for prizes for the shoot. I will do so tomorrow. I cant go this year but plan on next years event. I will probably drag, Mike Sheehan, Stan/Bravo and a few other with me. I will be shooting a rifle with no brake on it, from a hole in the ground, with decoys, and I will probably gas you this time to tear up those eagle eyes.
Undude
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 00:25:42 (ZULU) (your host
address: 205.188.193.153)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 00:44:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.86)
I think I was using it as intended... it was strapped onto my back
when moving across the open and anywhere else where possible. I can bear
alot of weight if it is strapped onto my back. From there where the brush
gets thick - I go to hand carry. When on my knees or belly style - the
drag bag slides along beside or behind me.
I used one for the first time @ storm - and have become a converted
'drag bagger'. Now - I say that - until someone shows/teaches me yet a
better way to do things.
If your rifle's zero is disturbed by an occaisional bump or two... you should reconsider using it as a field rifle... As much as I try to baby this 20 LB hunk of rifle that I have ... you just can't avoid all of the bumps...
Good Luck out there....
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Looking for Dragbags, Before End of Sept, USA - Tuesday, September
12, 2000 at 01:17:57 (ZULU) (your host address: 207.233.164.10)
Brandon
Brandon <nighthawk117a@mailexcite.com>
Felton, De, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 01:21:45 (ZULU) (your
host address: 146.145.118.107)
Chuck, Moe, ONLY TEN BUCKS on my scars? damn. I'm slightly offended. (LOL) Tell ya what I'm gonna do...I'm gonna have 'em STAPLE my incision shut with NO pain meds, YEAH...that's the ticket! and spell out ".300 Win Mag" in staples! Yeah, and then the aliens came, see, and we all gotta ride in their spaceship to McDonalds, yeah, thats the ticket!
Chuck, sounds like the range at Ocala N.F. is a dud. What's the scuttlebutt on the 200 yard range? Just come here next time. Our club range goes to 300 with steel targets at all ranges. Unless we're gonna shoot with Moe, then we can go his way and maybe shoot at the range in Pt. Malabar. Plus we can go to the indoor range and pull out some of the full auto stuff. Again, all shooters are welcome to come too. the more, the merrier.
Shooter, Damn, I wanted to set off the courthouse metal detector. I was thinking that posting notes on my knee with refridgerator magnets would be kinda cool too!
Bravo: Got ALL of the paint off of the M-3. Looks good. But I do need to get some freon. BTW I'm gonna e-mail you.
Anybody have any comments on putting teflon back on the M-3 LR to
match the rest of the rifle? Nah, never mind, dumb thought...but it went
away.
Cory <Ranger9@htomail.com>
Panama City, Fl., USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 01:35:35 (ZULU)
(your host address: 158.252.74.3)
'Lito 89 octane gets expensive when you start loading your hunting rounds.
later--- Eric
D5 <demise5@leading.net>
Jacksonville, Fl, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 02:10:35 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.199.5.202)
UnDude, you bet I'll head out there next year. Would have this year if the rains hadn't taken my cash. The only thing I've not figured is if I'm flying or driving. The difference in cost is negligible, but if I fly, I don't pack the brew. You wouldn't have any intention of using ME as one of those "decoys" would you? HA! On the CAR, I gave Geoff my "intended purpose", and it may very well be that it messes up. I EXPECT you to make me mess it up if it can be messed up. Better to learn with you (your I told you so and all) than to have it fail when I NEED it! Specifically, I warned of "New Mexico and Utah blowing fine sand", and "tactical mud baths". I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle, and thought of an A1 upper actually. But the A2 is issue, so I thought I wouldn't think above my paygrade.
Master Rick: I'll think on CARRYING a drag bag, never draging it. I sincerely doubt a scope cover and muzzle mitt would do me, but I'll NEVER allow Kotex to enter the picture. She's a real sweetie, and at this point, I'm not sure I could do better! What's wrong with 25's?
BBWolf: I like the name, for a sling, I'm gonna use a Mike Miller
original. What else?
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
where reno and the clit-tons will live in nice jail cells, hopefully,,
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 02:22:28 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.180.85.227)
regards,
Jim
Jim <NeverForget_27Oct69@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 04:03:21 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.239.216.34)
I appreciate your experience and I think you have good reasoning behind your advice.
I have a financial restriction however, which complicates the whole thing. I can only afford to buy one Rifle for the next 5 years of shooting -- could be more.
Therefore, as a compromise between the .22 and the .308 I'm guessing I should learn on the .223, and just do some solid dry-firing to develop technique before shooting live.
Is this sound logic?
Also, can I dry fire in my basement? The first rule of owning a rifle is "assume it's always loaded".. so this would kind of fly in the face of that. On the other hand, it's also a situation where you KNOW for sure the thing ISN'T loaded....
Your advice again appreciated.
ALloyd <moiety@hotmail.com>
Canada - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 04:04:50 (ZULU) (your host
address: 24.112.147.124)
Greetings. Some of you may recall my messages from a couple of weeks ago, in which I reported some difficulty in fathoming the trigger adjustment on my new Rem 700 PSS in 7.62mm. Thanks to you folks, I was able to adjust the trigger to my liking, a crisp and safe 2.5 lbs.
Anyhow, finally got a chance to shoot the rifle yesterday. After zeroing and playing around with it some, when I got serious I was able to shoot two 5-round and three 3-round groups of 168 gr. Gold Medal into consistent 7/16" center-to-center groups at 100 yards (couldn't go any further at this range). The 20th round was the first shot, a sighter after shifting over from PMC 168 gr. fodder. I cleaned the bore between groups and allowed 60 seconds between shots. There was about a 3 mph crosswind, not that this matters much at 100 yds. These were benchrested groups using a standard Harris bipod and Leupold LR M1 glass.
My I4895 / G.I. brass / 168 gr. Match King handload and the PMC stuff shot about 1.25 MOA.
Anyhow, just thought I'd share my success story and satisfaction
in light of all this talk about out-of-spec chambers on some of the new
PSS rifles. Mine seems groovy.
Paniolo <paniolo@hawaii.rr.com>
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 04:21:17 (ZULU)
(your host address: 24.94.95.160)
Can anyone give me a source for the Silva Ranger 15 compasses marked with 6400 Mils rather than degrees?
I have been searching the net but can't find the millitary model.
I am no longer in a position where I can just sign one out of the Q-store whenever I want, so now have to buy my own.
Heaps of places list the 360 degrees ones but I really want the 6400 Mils one with the magnetic variation adjustment.
Preferably someone who can accept email orders and is able to export to New Zealand.
Thanks,
Sniff
Sniff <akh805@actrix.gen.nz>
Auckland, New Zealand - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 05:19:12 (ZULU)
(your host address: 203.96.26.98)
Gonzo
Gonzo <ktmp5@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 06:41:19 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.25.164.73)
I was wondering what height bi-pod you guys have found most benificial. I have a Harris L model swivel which goes 9 to 13 inches... I was hoping to find one that would work prone as well as from the sitting position...there is another model one step up from there which I think goes up to 25" or 27"...on it's lowest setting it would be unusable prone. Does anyone make a bi-pod that will work from the prone and sitting positions ? Or possibly not use one at all ?
regards,
Jim
Jim <NeverForget_27Oct69@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 07:13:53 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.86.206.178)
Gerry
Gerry <gerryc@teleport.com>
Newberg , Oregon, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 07:18:46 (ZULU)
(your host address: 216.26.6.38)
Brandon...
On your M700PSS..."I want to know what I should do next to juice
her up even more, and suggestions would be welcomed. Either cosmetic, or
internal"
I would suggest four cases of Federal "GM" match... it will do wonders for the gun, internally, and as for the cosmetics, it's make you look real cool at the range by the time you've gone through the third case.
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 11:11:15 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
Step 1: Put 5,000 rounds through an accurate .22.
I'll assert that, its the most direct, and quickest, route to becoming
a good shot. It may be the ONLY route.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 12:05:38 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.253.13)
Anyone have the part number or a good supplier of this neat detent - legged - swivel harris bipod?
thanks,
ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, VA, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 12:42:20 (ZULU)
(your host address: 4.3.240.234)
THANKS!
ELIJAH
Elijah Corrigan <corrigan@digisys.net>
Kalispell, Montana, U.S.A. - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 13:19:42
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.218.31.202)
Okay all - one more...
I also need to lock onto one of those scope bubble levels... the low profile one that fastens to the scope, black in color, to fit on a 30mm scope... I didn't have too much trouble leveling my scope with the swivel bipod ... but that is something that drives me buggy...
I am asking around for several items at once ... I want to go ahead and knock out all the lessons that I learned while @ storm while they're still fresh.
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, VA, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 13:35:09 (ZULU)
(your host address: 4.3.240.234)
But now I have a question for any Garand collector or fan. A friend of mine just bought a M1 Garand-Tanker version. I don't know if it's been re-barreled, I suspect it has, because it's a .308. The receiver is stamped "US Rifle / M1 Tanker / Fed Ord Inc / So El Monte, CA / T50xxx
Are these little babies rare? With it being re-barreled, I don't think it has much of a collectors value, but my main concern is how hard is it going to be for me to find one also?
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!!
Larry <ljw@niroinc.com>
Hudson, Wisconsin, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 14:12:50 (ZULU)
(your host address: 204.117.39.5)
On AR slings. I use ten feet of 1.25" milspec webbing and five slide bar keepers. One for the front swivel. Two for a slide stop. One for a slide and one for the rear swivel stop. I configure it like an HxK sling and use it for patrol carry. It makes a loop over my shoulder and I can tighten it down for climbing. In short this is an updated HxK style sling, much like the Ghiles but IMHO better. I do not sell these slings, as they are only for carry/HRT use. They are strickly carry types. I also make a version of my Quick Cuff for AR's. This is a field type sling for the AR and allows both over the shoulder and shooting positions with the cuff.
Bravo, good advice on dry firing!
On dragging the bag. I only use the bag to getthe rifle safe to a
staging area,if at all. I dump it and crawl with just a scope cover and
muzzle cover. Now I will tell you how to make your own muzzle cover. Take
a 3" piece of HD 3" wide elastic and sew it to allow only a muzzle opening.
Then attach a 24" piece of 1/4" wide elastic(sew). Turn the whole thing
inside out and tie to your rifle. This takes about twenty minutes, costs
less than a buck and you have it. Or be lazy and send seven bucks to me,
but really if you have the energy to make a ghillie you should make your
own muzzle cover.
MikeMIller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 14:22:54 (ZULU) (your host
address: 148.165.83.143)
Sinclairs also has the notched leg bipods in the 9-13" height as
well.
The swivel one is HBP-LMS $89 and the non swivel is HBP-LM $59.75.
I have never seen the 6-9" version with detents....If I ever do, it will
be mine moments later.
On Birdsong Black-T - I have a Kahr K9 with this coating on it... it wears off from holster use, and will scratch, but it does protect the pistol well and dramatically reduces corrosion issues. I'm now of the opinion that I was in too much of a rush to buy the "latest and greatest" when I chose this coating... parkerizing is probably a better "tactical" solution. (so again, I learn the hard way)
I'm off to Storm this weekend for the train up and rendezvous..anyone
willing to offer tips on ghillie construction... mine looks pretty lame...(nomex
jumpsuit with netting sewn on... couple strands of burlap string attached)....
I sure hope the intent is to TEACH dopes like me how to construct one.
All my other kit is tested and ready (mentally, I'm ready to shut up and
listen), I might even make the 1.5 mile run without coming in last... but
this ghillie thing, not much in my civilian life to draw from on this topic...
Jim Mitchell <james_mitchell@merck.com>
NJ, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 14:51:47 (ZULU) (your host
address: 12.20.190.1)
Do the laser thing before you go to Storm, or I'll spend the money on some "Tramp in sheeps clothing" ;)
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 15:07:22 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
ALloyd,
I agree with CDC. You need to shoot a .22 first. It is okay to skip
over a 223, but the 22 is the backbone of good shooting discipline. Spend
the money on a good 22 bolt gun or an accurate 10/22 and then try and shoot
out the barrel. 22 ammo is available for $2-10 per box of 50 depending
on quality. 223 can be bought for $14 per box of 20 for match grade ammunition.
This keeps your concentration on the shooting and out of your wallet. A
heavy barrel 22 has essentially zero recoil. A 223 does have some recoil
and barrel jump even though it is not painful, it can hide small trigger
errors. At some point after shooting the big bores for 50 years and being
the best shooter on the planet you will realize that the 22 still has one
thing going for it, it is just plain fun to shoot.
The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
God Bless TX, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 15:11:31 (ZULU)
(your host address: 208.21.196.108)
Rudy <hprudisell@aol.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 15:49:47 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.197.204)
*********************************
ATTENTION ON DECK!
For those attending the Sniper Rendezvous on September 23rd and 24th.
The "Un-Official" post match gathering spot this year will be the Dennys on Rt. 220 south of Keyser, WV. / More information (Start times, and If we can reserve a room) will be posted closer to match date.
This being due to the unfortunate closing of last years bastion of
Ghillie Clad competitors - Francescos (aka Lucys Sheep Dip Cafe).
We now return you to the regularly scheduled banter.............
***************************************************
peteR <PNGREIFF@AOL.COM>
BIG CITY, BY-GAWD, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 16:07:59 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.193.154)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but, unless you have one of the very rare T26 rifles (2 or 3 made) or handful of PWB rifles (all supposedly reverted back to standard configuration after being found unsatisfactory), you're looking at one of the thousands of commercially made specimens, which have no collector value whatsoever and are seen as a fairly terrible mutilation of a fine, historic rifle.
Hope this helps guide you purchase decision!
Paniolo <paniolo@hawaii.rr.com>
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 17:36:19 (ZULU)
(your host address: 24.94.95.160)
UnDude: I learned that from my old hi-power partner, and he shot
WELL. Never the less, let no one forget, I am the student, YOU are the
teacher! Which is as it should be. BTW, it always feels good to hear that
I'm doing something right by a true pro. JUST MY OPINION!!: You ought to
let more folks know about that AR sling. I would have got a Giles if you
hadn't spoke up!
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic, formerly known as the great, USA - Tuesday, September
12, 2000 at 17:45:59 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
Are they hard to adjust for if your loads are not EXACTLY like the cams?.
Your expert opinions welcome, as I am dumb as a rock on this variety............
I know some of you have used them extensively on the M24's, and would
like your feed back, online or off........thanks, Two Shoes( Terry).
Two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 17:49:44 (ZULU) (your host address:
205.188.195.34)
http://www.aspila.com/harris/br.htm
S-BRM (leg notch) wt. 13 ozs. Price $69.99
On the scope level, I have one made by B-Square that looks like a small line level, it mounts to a Weaver style one piece rail and sticks out to one side of the mount. I'm not sure if it would work on two piece mounts. It can be seen at
http://www.reliablehost.com/bsquare/scopetools.html
No reason to choose this model over the ACD scope ring style, I just ran across it first. With the B-Square level I can see the bubble with my non-sighting eye with no movement of my head. The only con so far is that it appears that it may be prone to snagging...it sticks out about 3/4 inch to the side of the mount...the ACD has it beat there.
later,
Jim
Jim <NeverForget_27Oct69@yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 17:58:04 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.239.216.34)
Opinion of the MK4-M3? Out-friggin'-standing!... and worth the money.
If you are shooting a bullet that is one of those that match, or
come very close to the cams, you can make a notation and get by... if you
plan to shot something way off, you won't be happy. Suitable bullets are
the 168, 175, and 190 SMK's and the 168 and 178 A-Maxs.
Also very good, and less expensive is the M3-LR. There are some by Schmidt&Bender, Zeiss, and Swarovski that are very fine also, but I can't speak to them personally.
If you have a standard length barrel, or handload, it will be no
problem to get this scope to track any of the above bullets.
'lito.
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 18:05:47 (ZULU) (your host address:
208.249.180.65)
IMHO the MK4 M3 is better in many catagories than the USMC scope, but the USMC scope has better fine adjustments and optics. The MK4 has an user adjustable objective, which the USMC scope does not have.
The advantage the M3 has offer the M1 is that on the M1 you can be
off by one or more rotations and not notice it until you get the miss.
This happens under stress. The advantage the M1 has is it has 1/4moa adjustments
while the M3 has 1moa elevation and 1/2moa windage. M1 is for precision
and the M3 is for field.
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 19:52:59 (ZULU) (your host
address: 148.165.83.143)
Willing to learn.
Richard
Rich Englefield <renglefield@csus.edu>
El Dorado, Ca, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 20:14:58 (ZULU)
(your host address: 130.86.253.240)
When you mount your scope spend money on good rings. Badger Ordnance makes rings specifically for AR flat tops.
There are a lot of fine optics out there and they all have one thing in common, they are not cheap.
The Shooter <kkonen@usa.net>
Cooling off to the mid 80's in, God Bless TX, USA - Tuesday, September
12, 2000 at 21:17:12 (ZULU) (your host address: 208.21.196.108)
I believe 'Lito's description of "out frigging-standing" said it
all. As an owner of that fine scope myself, I chime in with the same seal
of approval.
Expensive, but well worth the dough.
As a feild scope, the one-turn dial is great only for it's simplicity, a 1/2 MOA fine adjustment like the Unertl would be nice, but as long as I can put a bullet in a torso sized target, it does the trick for me.
Don't worry if the ammo doesn't track the yardages on the knobs exactly, as long as you know what to turn to for each yard line, that takes the time at the range.
Semper Fi
Kush out
PS, 'Lito, As soon as I find a long enough place to shoot, I'll send
you out all the yardage clicks for the 168 smk
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 21:22:45 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.118)
With my experience with drag-bags, I find Brew-master Bravo's question to Ken very interesting.
Previously posted>>>>
Ken: this is gonna sound stupid, but did you use the drag bag as
a drag bag, or as a range bag? The reason I'm wondering is because I would
LIKE a drag bag for protection of dirt in the M-25 (changing zeros and
degredation of accuracy) but I was told I'd be laughed off the course if
I actually used a drag bag like it was intended <<<
When I was crawling around in the dirt as a young Lance-corporal, the drag-bags we used were simplicity at it's finest.
3rd SOTG has us make a 3-ply canvas "sock" for our rifles, similar
to the rifle scabards that your horse-back guides use.
You had the canvas folded over swen to a "point",closed on one end,
a poncho-liner used for lining and an open end to pull the rifle out from
that is secured with fas-tec buckles or 550 cord tie-down to close the
open end.
At the tip, we sewed a hand loop of mil-spec tubular webbing from
our assault climbers kits and 2 welded metal rings from an old pair of
UTD shorts to sewn in and used as attach points for a sling and the complimentary
550 cord loops for camo.
This bag was sleek, simple and durable.
The drag-bags of today are , let's face it too big and bulky in my eyes for a good stalk. The Eagle, Balckhawk, US TActical supply bags have too much going on for my taste. I perfer to have all my mission essential gear on my body, not in the ruck, not in the drag bag.
I guess I'm just crazy, but that is my story and I'm sticking with it
Sorry for the long post
Semper Fi
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 22:16:00 (ZULU) (your
host address: 12.28.201.165)
Thanks men, keep up the good threads. You twenty who post every day are teaching us two hundred who don't quite a bit.
Brian <bolt_308@yahoo.com>
OR, USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 23:10:58 (ZULU) (your host
address: 63.105.22.108)
Its not that big of a deal which one you buy. If you buy one and don't like it, trade it for the other on the Emporium. All you lose is $15 to OOPS (UPS).
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 23:15:42 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.40)
The 2700fps load you have is close to top... you might be able to
squeeze out another 50 fps, but you won't see any effect down range.
If you're happy with the load, don't push your luck.
Also remember that "flat out" loads will shorten case life, and
keeping those cases is important, or you won't have anything to load ;)
Ken...
Gimme a call tonight, before 10:30 eastern, (but not after... Wednesday
is my work week ;)
A doggie box is on the way!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 23:31:08 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
But... and this seems obvious, but obviously isn't... you can "split
a click".. the dial doesn't have to be centered in a detent... which means
that worst case is you will be off by +/- 2.5" at 1000yds.
And I couldn't shoot the difference of 2.5" at 1000yds, on the best
day of my life!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 23:38:56 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 00:04:15 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.26)
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 00:08:31 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.197.41)
Brother CDC: don't let it sweat you, 'Lito didn't let me in on that until AFTER the class.
Brian: I second 'Lito's statement. Mine cruise significantly less than 2700 now.
Kush: please tell me more. Seems that I'm learning here, just slowly.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
looks like the Detective Special might have a use now after all, USA
- Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 00:12:16 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.180.85.224)
Question to guys that have recently shot M118LR 175 gr military ammo. What are your experiences? We are getting real crappy gorups and accuracy sucks. Is this just our experience with the LOTs that we have or is this wide spread? I am not talking about commercial 175 gr ammo, only the Lake City crap.
Rick
Rick <rbowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 00:20:39 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.197.41)
Jim that Doesn't Forget;
Check the fit of that level to your bases.I bought one and installed
on Baer base that on superficial inspection looked good but when using
it and checking vertical tracking on my scope found it to be like everything
else I ever bought that had "B-Square" on it...poorly machined.The dove
tail cut did not match the dimensions of the base well and smushed when
tightened causing it to heave by several degrees I verified this with a
Starrett precision level.Like so many other things it looks good works
bad.Your mileage may vary.
Bruce E <bgenlvtex@aol.com>
Texas, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 00:32:09 (ZULU) (your
host address: 205.188.195.47)
Still learning nothing, you bring up a good point on the drag-bag/range
bag dilemma. Theb reason I thing the way I do about
these high-speed, low-drag bags is the enviromnent I was trained
in
In a jungle setting like Okinawa and the P.I., the A.O.'s are wrought with the dreaded catch-me, f**k me vines. We tried the Eagle drag bags nearthe end of my time in Oki in '93, they snagged on every branch, vine, you name it, I snagged it. I had never had that problem with my home-made special.
Rock On dudes
Kush out
Kush <smak@pce.net>
Buffalo, NY, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 00:53:44 (ZULU)
(your host address: 12.28.201.184)
On the MK4 were did you get the info about the 190 wheel?
Rick, we all have been a complete turn off. I had used a M1 for years before you, Rod and Gooch told me that everyone messed up with them eventually. I then shot across the class perfect and missed three shots between 400 and 600 yards on the Carlos Match. Nothing like hitting the 900 yarders and missing the easy ones.
I still prefer the M1 for precision work but for a 308 field rifle
I see nothing wrong with making life simple/M3
MikeMiller <Tactical@tacticalintervention.com>
Calif, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 01:05:38 (ZULU) (your
host address: 152.163.213.181)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 01:06:11 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.237.102)
Glad to see you're having good luck with your new Rem700. I think it's time to visit the Miami Rem Warranty gunsmith for a nice, light trigger job, mount a scope, swab the bore and go shoot the damn thing! That is why I bought it, after all!
Bravo,
Mrs. Bravo is getting her CCW, eh? Good for her. You're right, the more of US there are, the harder for THEM to explain to us the error of our ways!
Cory,
ONLY TEN BUCKS? Damn right, bro. After what I dropped for the 700 Police and what I'm gonna drop for the Loopo LR M3, that's all I got left! And it's gonna cost me $20 to have the doc carve SNIPERCOUNTRY.COM into my knee Friday!
Hey, did you say "full auto?" Ooooohhhhhhh. I think a trip to the panhandle needs to be planned.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
NiceDayInBoca, FL, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 01:31:07
(ZULU) (your host address: 205.188.200.145)
Being that a sniper rifle is next to worthless in a break-contact during infiltration/exfiltration the man humping the team bag is better off with a CAR. My one problem with the team bags in this mode is that when you are humping it the barrel is right behind your head making it real uncomfortable.
Guys I was at Quantico when we helped Eagle design the thing (around '85?). It was not meant to be used as a "Drag bag" as much as it was meant to get the gun and all of its collateral gear into the target area. I have seen morons walk with the thing dragging on the ground behind them (I left my OP perch on a stalk for that one). Its silly. Think about it. That rifle is the whole focus of your mission and you are going to "drag" it? Maybe when low crawling but thats the only time and when you do that you have to have complete control of it less it knock a bush, snag a tree etc so you keep it close to your body. When I low crawl its between my legs.
Thats rifle is your baby. It gets cleaned before you wash your dick, eat, sleep etc. You dont drag the thing. Ahh but thats the Jarhead in me...."This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine..."
1/4 moa scopes. Great for known distance competitions, not good for the bush. I heard of another 1 revolution out error (windage this time) at CFSAC this year by a very well trained American sniper. If you are going to use them learn to count your dope off by taking the turrets to mechanical zero (counting clicks till bottomed out) and record this setting. GO to mechanical zero prior to shooting then count your clicks back to your base zero as with iron sights. Or you can hope for the best and screw up that one important shot. Of course every shot is important but thats another soap box.....
Out
Gooch <goochkw@riflemen.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 02:21:35 (ZULU) (your host address:
129.71.115.4)
Chill out Dude... you're taking too much of that Ginsu pain killer ;)
I didn't say it 2700 with the 175 SMK was hard to get... I said it was up there, and a good load, and that he could get more, but why?
I just shot some 308 Fed GM-2 out of a fast 27.5" barrel (that gives
me 2650 with 190 SMK's without even breathing hard)... and the pissy Fed
GM-2 went 2620 :((
I got pellet guns that do more betterer ;)
Lemme see... that 10,247 things we don't agree on. :))
About M3 300W/190 cams... I posted that a while ago... (and got a
new round of attacks from...
Anyway... I've been on Lupita's case for a year on the cam thing,
and Lupita's engineers are looking at the whole M3 cam issue, and re-calc'ing
all but the M3-LR military metric cam.
They are considering dropping the 223, and 30-06 and issuing 3 cams
for the .308, and two cam for the 300W.
I'm with Rick and the others... I've lost points... and matches with target turrets, under pressure.
Last year at Storm, on the long range "Downtown" target, my spotter
called me "8 FEET over" the target... and I said you're ****** me, and
(stupidly) let another fly, and was 8 feet over, again...
(rule#1 ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR SPOTTER, even if his name IS Chainsaw;)...
rule #2, go read rule #1 again... twice!!
I was a full turn off on the target turrets.
I'll take a M3 on a field gun every time.
CDC...
Don't feel bad... took me a whole year to figure that one out, and
I'm the "Cam man" ;)
Like the mn said... "Rock On, Dudes"!!
'lito
Pablito <condor@mags.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 02:31:55 (ZULU) (your host address:
24.191.22.47)
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 03:24:28 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.91)
This site has beaten to death who has the best barrel, but what I need to know is who can deliver a good barrel quickly, as in the next month or so, not next year.
I will be getting another 300 win mag barrel for my Remington Sendero
in the next few weeks and would like a good quality barrel. (My stocker
shoots sub-MAO no problemo, but has almost 2,500 rounds through it.) thanx.
Hank <ninesoft2@earthlink.net>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 03:35:53 (ZULU) (your host address:
38.31.10.16)
Jerry - sorry Video still not done - my 203 is still "in the mail" back from repair. We are running a match 7-8 October and I will get the final footage then - but it should be good.
Marius - review of stock almost rewriten
Also for any likely to be near Calgary, Alberta Canada 7-8 October, I am running the 1st Annual Unintended Consequenses Match at our club that weekend. Three gun match on Saturday, then a stalk Sat at dusk and a Service rifle and sniper match the sunday. I can send detailed info for those interested.
Kevin <kevmich@cadvision.com>
Canada - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 03:38:00 (ZULU) (your host
address: 207.148.137.178)
Bill Rogers <brogers@elkhart.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 04:15:35 (ZULU) (your host address:
209.184.248.252)
I've only used the M1's, and can see where they could be a problem, (as I have had to question myself), with NO pressure on a 1K range, NOW where was I??????.
Sorry to have missed out on all the action, felt real special ya'll talkin them dials............
I been slavin' away on first time cleaning on a New 300WM RAMINGTON, always takes 2 hours, man they are rough!!!!!!!
Always take em' to the bare steel before break in start.( hope I got a straight chamber).Will know, if it shoots around corner's pointed straight!!.
Again, appreciate your help, now awaiting baby to mount!!
Two Shoes,
Deep in the Heart of Texas!( well the North part).
Two Shoes <tls8323@cs.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 04:43:51 (ZULU) (your host address:
152.163.197.52)
Wild Bill, you anchor of reality you, sounds like you've had a similar experience. 3-9 variable, still set on 9 from checking the zero. Saw the buck, but then couldn't find him with the scope. Ah, to be young and dumb enough to not think of opening the other eye again. After that, hunting rifles were either open sights or straight 4X's.
Master Rick: The Kotex thing was prejudiced in how I heard it. I got "you know what Rick said about your M-25?". BAH! If I can ever figure out how to sew, I'm thinking of an "action cover" that would basically be a WAY extended scope cover / muzzle mitt to cover op rod, receiver and all. Don't hold your breath, I'm no Mike! As for the off hand shots, well, that's where I either strap in hard (shooting jacket) or get LOW scores! That's why this F-class stuff is so inviting to me. I like to do what I enjoy, and I enjoy what I do well. Therefore, no practice on the stuff that needs practicing, right? Lately I've convinced myself to do more sitting, but still don't have the discipline to do offhand. Hey, it's demoralizing! Besides, who decided there should be no slings used off hand?
Kent and Rick: I'll let the two of you slug it out on how I'll do
the Storm stalk next year. BFA so you can see the brass, bolt action the
thing, or with no BFA to stir the dust more.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
where the bride isn't pregnant, but her mother is, USA - Wednesday,
September 13, 2000 at 04:47:11 (ZULU) (your host address: 209.180.85.167)
Hank:
You might try giving Janet at HS Precision a call about your rebarrel dilemma. My 300 win mag bbls don't shoot too shabby, and we should be able to run it thru the system fairly quick. Tell her young Jerome gave you the heads up and we'll see what we can do for ya!! phone is (605)341-3006, we're out of South Dakota.
Yours aye
JR <jr_rcsd@hotmail.com>
rapid city, sd, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 06:53:59 (ZULU)
(your host address: 152.163.207.82)
Semper Fi!!!
Chuck
Charles Hopkins <IcyDeath@prodigy.net>
Orange Park, Fl, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 11:23:28 (ZULU)
(your host address: 38.2.209.21)
Brian,
I push my 308 168s to 2800fps with Varget and for that reason I
have not switched to the 175s that eveyone else is going to.Mine is and
aftermarket barrel and as Mike says its easy to get good velocity out of
a good barrel.
Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 13:58:33 (ZULU) (your host address:
207.41.18.130)
Okay Hogs... I took the recommendation of a fellow roster hog and ordered the drag bag from tacticaltailor.com. It has 3 pouches, heavy material, good looking zippers, shoulder straps, and will hold a 50 inch gun. Will let ya's know how it flies...
On comments made earlier regarding dragging the bagged rifle in the while on the walk.... now that's about a brain damaged way to treat yer rifle. I found myself either humping it on my back, or carrying it cradled in my arms on the move. When going worm-style.. then it is drug either beside or behind me ... still trying to minimize the banging on rocks, etc.
The salty dudes (Kent, Rick, Rod, etc) have the last words on that one - but Ima telling ya what worked for me.
Ken :)
Ken Hunter <hunterkr@riflemen.net>
Nokesville, Va, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 14:32:27 (ZULU)
(your host address: 4.3.240.234)
When you have to aim rapid with your bolt rifle. Look directly at the target and put the scope between you and the target.
**Yeah. Both eyes open and use a shotgun mount to bring the rifle to your eye.
Don't look in the scope and try to find the target like you might do at long range prone under high power.
**Check.
Don't wait for the cross hair to settle just let the "force" fire the weapon.
**This "force" is the circut you have burned between your eye and your finger. You pick the point you want to hit. The sight picture pulls the trigger. That's why you did those two hundred thousand dry-fires and you burned that hundred bricks of .22.
Don't forget to lead it a little.
**I like the "swing through". The gun just goes off.
And don't do too much math cause you'll be dead before you get the answer.
**For this kind of shooting you put your crosshairs where you want the bullet to go.
Find it, track it, lock on, fire and follow through if you're swinging.
**Well said.
Sound like a shotgun?
**Almost. With a shotgun you pick a point, lock on with your eye and visually ignore the shotgun. When your body feels right you break the shot. With a rifle you pick a point then visualize the desired sight picture. The sight picture breaks the shot. Ideally the rifle should be light enough and have the balance to 'point' like a shotgun. The stock should come to the eye like a shotgun's. That usually implies building up the comb. Its easiest to acquire the target with a lower powered scope. For me 4X will do but 2.5X is better. I don't have much luck if the scope is mounted further back than the back of the trigger guard. The scope should be mounted as low as possible.
If my increasingly creaky memory serves, the performance standard is 3.25" circle at 25 yards in 1.5 seconds. The place where I learned this technique has the students shoot skeet with bolt guns. (I missed every shot then went home and practiced A LOT.) One guy hit a double in front of many witnesses.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 14:46:41 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.232.14)
Sorry for going offline, but....
Three years ago, a slime walks into a pawn shop in Miami and BS's with the two employees for a few minutes. He then pulls out a pistol and double taps the first guy in the chest from 12 inches away, killing him instantly. He and the remaining employee then get into a protracted gun battle that lasts until the cops arrive. The slime can't run because the door is locked shut. The second employee is shot several times but manages to survive his wounds.
All of this is caught in explicit detail on the store's surveilance cameras. The videos were admitted as evidence in the trial.
Yesterday, the jury returns a verdict of life imprisonment with no chance of parole for this POS.
The jury took FIVE (5) hours to deliberate over this. The defense attorney thanked the jury for being so "thorough" in their deliberations and, of course, will be appealing the verdict.
This should have been decided in five minutes, not five hours. And the proper verdict should have been a .22lr to the back of the head immediately.
I don't understand it. What are the people in this country thinking about these days? I am definitely missing something here.
Rant over.
Moe
Moe Mensale <mjmensale@aol.com>
Boca Raton, FL, USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 17:05:51 (ZULU)
(your host address: 205.188.199.59)
1. Zero at 100 yards from the bipod and beanie baby prone.
2. Remove windage turret and replace at zero index.
3. Remove elevation turret and replace with the vertical line at
zero and the lowest horizontal line possible at the top of the fixed turret
housing (whatever it's called) that comes up from the scope body.
4. BLACK OUT THE HORIZONTAL LINES that are above that line.
5. Establish your 'come-ups'.
6. You keep track of your rotations by the number of horizontal
lines above the turret housing.
I've used that technique for only 600 rounds. It seems like it works,
but I'm not prepared to apply for the position of SC's resident turret
kook.
CDC <criscurt@isu.edu>
USA - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 17:16:52 (ZULU) (your host address:
134.50.3.175)
CDC: I know where you went to school! Speaking of such, the SMG course
app goes off today.
Bravo <Bravo762@yahoo.com>
the banana republic formerly known as the, USA - Wednesday, September
13, 2000 at 17:25:44 (ZULU) (your host address: 12.9.223.170)
Is it worth investing in a scope for a .22 rifle when learning?
ALloyd <moiety@hotmail.com>
Canada - Wednesday, September 13, 2000 at 17:29:15 (ZULU) (your host
address: 24.112.147.124)
It's a trade off ultra precision or ultra simple. As long as your happy and it works you are right. Just do what I know you already do, practice a great deal.
Pablito, I am relaxed, but excited at the thought a 190 wheel might be out there. The reason to use the 175's at 2700, is that what the Army LR round does out of my rifles. My reloads duplicate that so all my data is the same. To keep it